The Challenge

[Flying Crane]

I dont think we should blame China at all for how much oil we use. Thats our thing you know. I was just meaning I didnt want to get into a debate on where China stands on alot of issues. A very hot topic for lots of people that I didnt want to do at the moment.
China I believe doesnt use alot of fuel because so many of their people are still farmers you know. Very few of them live in big cities like americans do, and also for alot of reasons.

Fair enough. My only point with regards to nations like China and India are that they have a much larger population than we have. This alone gives them claim to use oil at a higher rate than we do. However, we continue to be responsible for the vast majority of oil consumption. If we attempt to tell nations like China that they cannot increase their oil consumption, while our own consumption spirals out of control, that arrogance and hypocrasy will/should not be tolerated by the rest of the world, in my opinion.

I do agree that we need to come up with some fuel options. I think not only would it save our earth, but it would take care of alot of the whole "politics and oil" issues you know. I mean I think arguing over something everyone needs and all the crap they do is just ridicoulous. But just you wait probably when we use water for power theyll want to charge us just to drink it. Even more then they already do. They wont charge us to bring it to our homes, theyll actually charge us for drinking. LOL....just a whole nother politicians scheme. LOL...dont know for sure but you never know these days.

I just watched a documentary about Corporations. Sorry, I can't remember the title. Apparently in one of the South American countries, water rights were privatized, and were owned by Bechtel Corp., which is based in San Francisco. This company tried to control all water access and use, and charged up to 25% of a worker's daily wages for their water supply. They even made it illegal to collect rainwater. The people revolted and took back their water, but people were killed in the process. It's all about greed. It has happened before, and it could certainly happen again. We The People need to be vigilant and never let that happen.

I personally dont believe that there should be one agreement for every country to follow by as every countries needs are different and always changing. I think each country should just make an internal agreement to its people you know. Not an external agreement to the rest of the world.

Well, the problem is that this issue is way bigger than any one nation. The entire planet is in danger and I believe we, as the largest consumer of oil by a long shot, have a responsibility to all nations and all people. When we are faced with the possibility of depleting and eliminating the world's oil supply completely, and creating global catastrophe in the process, then our "needs" with regard to oil use just can't stand up to scrutiny and cannot be justified. We are the biggest abusers of oil. We hold the biggest responsibility in spearheading technologies to take us away from reliance on oil, and averting global disaster. We must be answerable to the rest of the world. To think otherwise is selfish, greedy, and arrogant. This isn't a personal attack on you, it is just a commentary on the prevalent attitudes that allow us to think that we hold a special place in the world, and justifies our notion that we have special rights and can continue with our consumption regardless of the damage being done to everyone else. We have no right to think this way.

 

[zDom]

But.... but.... I *like* driving my classic 1969 Pontiac LeMans convertible four-barrel 8-banger (7-9 mpg) around!

Can't we just bring back imperialism? Conquer oil-rich countries, take their oil, and make them use animals for transportation?

This Superpower With a Conscience thing isn't working out for us anyway. Other countries still hate us anyway.

 

[Flying Crane]

Can't we just bring back imperialism? Conquer oil-rich countries, take their oil, and make them use animals for transportation?

This Superpower With a Conscience thing isn't working out for us anyway. Other countries still hate us anyway.

heh heh heh... well, we're having a hell of a time conquering Iraq as it is...How many other oil-rich nations would we have to start wars with, before we possess all the oil in the world?

And then we can just hope that global warming is a myth, or at least doesnt kick in until after I grow old and die, so it's not my problem...

 

[Domino]

I saw on the news the other day, china is pioneering the new rentable fuel cells cars already, looks a great idea.

 

[Steve]

I know this really oversimplifies typical disagreements, but:

You say 1+1=2. Some person disagrees with you and says 1+1=3. Are you willing to find that 1+1=2.5? What if the other person isn't willing to meet you at 2.5 and still demands that 1+1=3? They won't even meet you at 2.75 or 2.99. If finding common ground means that you must think that 1+1=3, isn't that worse than not finding common ground, for you at least? What have you given up of yourself?

I think that in most things, common ground can be found. Or said another way, most of what we discuss is opinion, not fact. Facts make for very short discussions.

Man 1: Hot, eh?
Man 2: Yup.

It's only when we introduce an opinion that we really have a discussion:

Man 1: I think it's global warming.
Man 2: That's because you're a hippy.
Man 1: You don't think global warming is a legitimate concern?
Man 2: Screw you, hippy.

Okay, so maybe not like that, but hopefully you get the picture.

So, where facts are being shared, there is often little room to debate. But there are almost always opinions being tied to the facts, and we can often (if not always) find some room for consensus.

So, to find some common ground, I agree that facts are difficult to dispute.

 

[Phoenix44]

I think on most issues, common ground can be found. I have found that the most difficult, maybe impossible, situations in which to achieve common ground involves faith. For example:

My religion holds that human life begins at conception.
vs
My religion holds that human life begins at birth.

Or

The bible tells me that birth control is wrong.
vs
I'm an atheist, and birth control is perfectly OK with me.


What's the common ground? You can't argue faith. It's what someone believes. That's very different from considering various options in health care delivery.