The cane as a weapon
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BlackSheep
Orange Belt
bushidomartialarts
Senior Master
i've been training with the cane for coming on to 10 years now. started off adapting kenpo, sword and staff techniques and then started getting ranked in the goju-shorei system.
my first motivation was to prepare for extensive travel in asia -- i wanted something i could take through customs. even in post 9/11 america, i take my custom fighting cane with me when i fly and have never once been stopped or asked about it. in fact, i have a funny story about being sweated by a tsa guy over a pair of scissors while holding my cane in both hands.
the cane is a great weapon. even more than its legality, it is non-escalatory. bring any other weapon to the game and somebody is going to get froggy just because they see that you're packing. with a cane, people are socially conditioned to be nicer to you.
in terms of the goju-shorei and canemasters systems, they're pretty much the same. in fact, they were one system for some years before they split up. the techniques are, in fact, fairly simple and look to be very effective. the fella who posted different earlier must have seen something taken out of context.
FMA has a lot to offer, but doesn't specialize in the cane. you can also get value from kenjutsu, jo staff and tonfa training. the cane is unique in some ways, though -- the best way to train in the cane is to train in the cane.
as a final note, sokei dave mcneil is the head of the goju-shorei system and a fine, honorable man.
my first motivation was to prepare for extensive travel in asia -- i wanted something i could take through customs. even in post 9/11 america, i take my custom fighting cane with me when i fly and have never once been stopped or asked about it. in fact, i have a funny story about being sweated by a tsa guy over a pair of scissors while holding my cane in both hands.
the cane is a great weapon. even more than its legality, it is non-escalatory. bring any other weapon to the game and somebody is going to get froggy just because they see that you're packing. with a cane, people are socially conditioned to be nicer to you.
in terms of the goju-shorei and canemasters systems, they're pretty much the same. in fact, they were one system for some years before they split up. the techniques are, in fact, fairly simple and look to be very effective. the fella who posted different earlier must have seen something taken out of context.
FMA has a lot to offer, but doesn't specialize in the cane. you can also get value from kenjutsu, jo staff and tonfa training. the cane is unique in some ways, though -- the best way to train in the cane is to train in the cane.
as a final note, sokei dave mcneil is the head of the goju-shorei system and a fine, honorable man.
BlackSheep
Orange Belt
bushidomartialarts said:
Im going by what I saw on the two web pages linked.
I have trained in the use of the hooked cane while training in Bando. I have found that you can find good canes at a sheep and wool festival or the like, usually around Fall. I have found regular height canes and shepards canes about as tall as shoulder height, both for around $8 t0 $12 depending. I love the cane as a self defense weapon and it is legal to carry through an airport. In general (remember this, just in general) walking with a cane tip down is no problem, raise tha tip up and LEO's see in in a completely different light, weither or not it has been sharpened at the crook.
BlackSheep
Orange Belt
You guys/gals that train with a cane, what do you prefer a straight handle or a curved one?
Thanks.
Thanks.
BlackSheep
Orange Belt
Hi Jimi
What do you prefer, a two handed grip when fighting or just one hand grip? If you prefer the one hand grip, what is the off hand doing?
Do you prefer to swing the cane or do you prefer to poke with it? Do you grapple using the cane?
bushidomartialarts
Senior Master
BlackSheep said:
definitely curved. there's a whole bunch of techniques the curved handle makes possible. capturing the leg/head/arm, scooping the groin...
BlackSheep
Orange Belt
So you include grappling with striking when using the cane.
What is your favorite move using the cane to grapple with?
And while we’re at it, what’s your favorite move using the cane to strike with?
And one final question, have you used your cane in a real fight? Please give details if you have, thanks.
I prefer to use one hand while swinging the cane & I use the other hand as a guard/live hand position like in the FMA's. I've trained using a two haned grip as well as a single handed grip for thrusts with the cane. Usually I use the 2 handed grip for close range thrusts much like military baton work, I aslo use a 1 handed grip for a longer thrust (much like a fencers thrust) typicaly to the groin or lower abdomin. This long thrust is usually used as a finisher or to help push an injured attacker away once other techniques have softened him, like a disengagment. I have also learned a lot of leg/foot picks with the hook sometimes followed by a groin hook into a possible throw. Aslo the hook can be used to lever against an arm and even the head. There are throws from hooking the head as well as headbutts, knee strikes and chokes. lots of fun stuff. The cane has allies, punches, kicks, knees, elbows etc...PeaceBlackSheep said:
BlackSheep
Orange Belt
Thanks for the reply Jimi.
I have a couple more questions for you or for anyone else too.
If your cane is grabbed by the assailant, what do you do?
What is your “on guard” position/stance like?
I have a couple more questions for you or for anyone else too.
If your cane is grabbed by the assailant, what do you do?
What is your “on guard” position/stance like?
If an assailant grabs the cane I will kick or knee to the groin/lower ab and retreact the cane tight, usually following with a release technique to twist his grip loose. Similar to short stick or baton weapon retention, it is possible to lever him into a better position to strike or control. Sometimes even striking the hands grabbing at my cane with my knees. My on guard stance with the cane is less like a kickboxing/boxing on guard. With the cane in my right hand, I have my right foot back (almost) in a cat or back stance and my left hand up palm out like I am warding someone off. if some-one engages the lead hand I give them the cane or kicks, what have you.BlackSheep said:
BlackSheep
Orange Belt
Thanks again Jimi.
One more question if you don’t mind?
In the “on guard” position, when holding the cane in your right hand, is the cane pointing at the assailant or is it held over your shoulder?
One more question if you don’t mind?
In the “on guard” position, when holding the cane in your right hand, is the cane pointing at the assailant or is it held over your shoulder?
Flatlander said:
I think the FMA adapted to the Combat Cane is giving me something to look forward to when I'm old and possibly need a cane. I have one Canemaster cane. It's OK. They do have better wood to choose from. My wife has multiple schelerosis and has been having trouble walking so I'm cutting the cane down to fit her. So technically this cane will be 3" to short for me.
I'm going to order myself a better one and cut it down to fit me. This way I can get used to the feel of the cane vs. the stick. The first thing I noticed was the handle throws the balance off. It's not swift like a stick.
Don't mind questions like that at all. In the on guard position, the tip of the cane is pointing down, if not touching the ground 45 degrees almost beside me. Most of the sequences of movement I have learned start from there, except some movements from the form I learned, some of the movements start from either shoulder, hip or from a thrust to the ground (downing an opponent) as if I were already engaged with multiple attackers. I was taught to try to keep the tip down or touching the ground, keeps LEO's from considering me the aggressor and great groin shots start from there. NOTE: Do not do the Charlie Chaplin twirl thing with your cane around your Instructor if he is serious about the cane. PEACEBlackSheep said:
aplonis
Orange Belt
We train with the cane (Canemasters) as an auxilliary part of our TKD class. I have two canes, a basic three-grip instruction cane and a custom Sunday-go-to-beatin' cane which I am having laser decorated locally. I don't care for too sharp a horn or anything else that would make it rip or tear. A good bruise should suffice to get one's point across in most situations. If you modify it for excess sharpness, then you'll have to exercise great care to moderate force in most situations to avoid overkill.
As for non-MA applications, normally I get along fine without a cane. But I kind of do need it sometimes...as a prop for getting in and out of the car so as to not torque my left knee and to ease my lower back on certain days. In fact, I bought the PT Cruiser in the first place on account of that reason (its being easy to get in and out of, not like my wife's Honda).
So I've got the one for practice and the nicer one for everyday. I'm very impressed with the cane as a weapon should ever I need it, although I don't forsee such a case. Still, you never know. If I'm going to encoumber myself with such a thing, may as well master its myriad uses, yes?
I also have a bo, a hanbo and a jo. I prefer the cane to all of them for MA practice. It is more fun. That plus the cane has valid everyday utility. I recommend it very well. I can't imagine dragging a bo or a jo around. And carrying the hanbo makes you look menacing and antisocial in addition to its utter uselessness for any other purpose than combat.
Gan Uesli Starling
http://wmtkd.us
Kalamazoo Chapter
Western Michigan Tae Kwon Do
As for non-MA applications, normally I get along fine without a cane. But I kind of do need it sometimes...as a prop for getting in and out of the car so as to not torque my left knee and to ease my lower back on certain days. In fact, I bought the PT Cruiser in the first place on account of that reason (its being easy to get in and out of, not like my wife's Honda).
So I've got the one for practice and the nicer one for everyday. I'm very impressed with the cane as a weapon should ever I need it, although I don't forsee such a case. Still, you never know. If I'm going to encoumber myself with such a thing, may as well master its myriad uses, yes?
I also have a bo, a hanbo and a jo. I prefer the cane to all of them for MA practice. It is more fun. That plus the cane has valid everyday utility. I recommend it very well. I can't imagine dragging a bo or a jo around. And carrying the hanbo makes you look menacing and antisocial in addition to its utter uselessness for any other purpose than combat.
Gan Uesli Starling
http://wmtkd.us
Kalamazoo Chapter
Western Michigan Tae Kwon Do
bushidomartialarts
Senior Master
BlackSheep said:
yup, but you can to that with pretty much any weapon. cane's a little more built for it, though.
BlackSheep said:
hooking the leg/ankle with the crook. whether i'm tripping or using it to do a leg check, it's pretty easy to get and tends to sting like all get-out.
BlackSheep said:
a sharp jab with the tip, either one or two-handed
BlackSheep said:
'real fight' is an overstatement, but i did use it to ward off an aggressive drunk guy by poking him in the stomach until he backed off. he never got within 3 feet of me.
bushidomartialarts
Senior Master
BlackSheep said:
kick him in the knee or shin, then take my damn cane back. i mean, the nerve of some people....
pretty standard guard stance (i.e. fighting horse or neutral bow). cane is up in the lead hand at about 45 degrees, with the crook downwards. rear hand is open and on the center line.
BlackSheep
Orange Belt
I haven’t had any training in the cane and more importantly I haven’t used a cane in a real fight. So I’m going out on limb with some theorizing.
Even if the cane has a good crook you should never try to grapple using the cane. I say this because a hook is a poor substitute for a hand. If you grapple with the cane you have one hand and a hook while your assailant has both of his hands, giving him the advantage. Grappling techniques using the cane should be limited to retaining control of your cane should your assailant try to grab it from you.
Fighting on the inside should be avoided whenever possible. Fighting on the inside usually means holding the cane in both hands and striking with both ends of the cane. First at this range, your assailant can easily reach out and grab the cane, turning the fight into a tug-a-war and to your disadvantage. Secondly holding the cane in both hands leaves you without your guard up and fighting on the inside with no guard is begging to be KOed. It’s better to fight on the outside where you can take advantage of the cane’s reach.
Swinging the cane will put significantly more force into the blow than thrusting will. Thrusting attacks should be avoided, especially when holding the cane with one hand.
Having your hand holding the cane smashed or slashed by your assailant can disarm you. Instead of using the typical fencers guard, use a hanging guard. The hanging guard will place your hand in a less vulnerable position to be struck and the orientation of the cane’s crook will now give some protection to the hand.
That’s all I can think of for the moment, comments?
Even if the cane has a good crook you should never try to grapple using the cane. I say this because a hook is a poor substitute for a hand. If you grapple with the cane you have one hand and a hook while your assailant has both of his hands, giving him the advantage. Grappling techniques using the cane should be limited to retaining control of your cane should your assailant try to grab it from you.
Fighting on the inside should be avoided whenever possible. Fighting on the inside usually means holding the cane in both hands and striking with both ends of the cane. First at this range, your assailant can easily reach out and grab the cane, turning the fight into a tug-a-war and to your disadvantage. Secondly holding the cane in both hands leaves you without your guard up and fighting on the inside with no guard is begging to be KOed. It’s better to fight on the outside where you can take advantage of the cane’s reach.
Swinging the cane will put significantly more force into the blow than thrusting will. Thrusting attacks should be avoided, especially when holding the cane with one hand.
Having your hand holding the cane smashed or slashed by your assailant can disarm you. Instead of using the typical fencers guard, use a hanging guard. The hanging guard will place your hand in a less vulnerable position to be struck and the orientation of the cane’s crook will now give some protection to the hand.
That’s all I can think of for the moment, comments?
