The Body's Natural Weapons

[elder999]

The theory (which I don't know has ever been fully validated) is that early hunters may have specialized in distance running to wear down prey. Most animals can outrun us in the short sprint, but not many of them can run marathons.

The spear is only 350,000 years old.

Vocalization is likely a product of teamwork, not the other way around.

 

[Orange Lightning]

The spear is only 350,000 years old.

Vocalization is likely a product of teamwork, not the other way around.

I can't watch this right now because I don't have good bandwidth. Sorry. I'll get back to it later if I have a chance.

 

[Touch Of Death]

The spear is only 350,000 years old.

Vocalization is likely a product of teamwork, not the other way around.

So they didn't have spears the year before? LOL

 

[Orange Lightning]

Fists of Fury Human Hand Custom Designed for Violence Says University Study

Study on punching and evolution.

YES! More of this! This is the kind of stuff I'm looking for guys.
It's pretty interesting. I've read articles of a similar nature in the past that pointed out that plenty of apes had excellent hands for grabbing and manipulating, but couldn't make effective fists. I also read articles that suggested that the human hand was designed to punch things.

I kind of doubted that could be true at the time. Plenty of forum martial artists seemed to think so to, drawing from the fact that so many people break their knuckles against other people. I found myself conflicted because, sure your thumb makes a supporting buttress that makes an tight fist. But if the hand was designed for punching, the knuckles would be thicker, our arms would probably be longer, and it wouldn't hurt so much to punch things.

Now that I think about it again, especially in the context of that article, well...I need to think about it again. Punches would probably be a lot slower if the arms were longer. Plenty of apes and monkeys have really long arms, and don't have hands for punching. That could be pretty telling. I'm think gorillas can make fists, but they don't really punch either. Hm.... food for thought indeed.

 

[elder999]

So they didn't have spears the year before? LOL

As I recall, no, no we did not have spears the year before they were invented. Just sayin'

(Or, you know, the 100,000 years or so before that....)

 

[RTKDCMB]

Do you think we have a primary natural weapon?

Mankind's greatest weapon has always been his intelligence. It is a shame many people who perpetrate violence do not use it. Opposable thumbs have help a lot.

 

[elder999]

Opposable thumbs have help a lot.

Man's hands were made for clubs.

 

[Touch Of Death]

And Michaelobe.

 

[Tez3]

Plenty of apes and monkeys have really long arms, and don't have hands for punching.

They don't need to punch, have you seen their teeth?

 

[Buka]

Bear with me for a minute. I have to begin by stating the obvious so I have some context.

Obviously, tigers have claws and snakes have fangs and venom. Humans have....well, we have what we have. You know what we have
But the thing about it that I found odd is that, compared to other animals, we have a lot of weapons, and we can use them in many ways. We have hands, arms, shins, feet, knees, and debate-ably more. And we can use these weapons in as many ways as we can think of. Particularly unique is the ability to make the tools of any other animal our own. Fur, claws, poison, camouflage, speed, etc. Plenty of people think the human hand evolved to be the way the precise way it is specifically to better use tools and weapons.

However, we don't seem to have a natural formula for any of it. We don't hide, chase and pounce like a tiger. We don't have a specific method that we always use, and usually works. There are many theories about the best tools to use and the best ways to use them. This is a context thing too, since different places had different challenges.

Here comes the discussion question. We can use plenty of things fight with against each other. But out of all our tools, what do you think we be our primary, natural weapon? Excluding weapons, what part(s) of the body would be the main ones used to defend yourself against both other people and animals? Or do we have one at all?

To me, is the legs. Knees, shins, and feet. Against animals, it's probably closer to the target than the hands. Plus, these parts are way more resilient to damage than the other parts of the body, almost no matter what you make impact with. Plus, in a survival scenario, the legs are going to be incredibly strong. I can't find the same link, but I once read an article about how much stronger ancient people's legs were because they needed to move all the time and carry a lot more. Farmers, nomads, hunter gatherers, and armies of any sort led lives that put a lot more stress on their legs.

Ancient humans were better travellers than us - daily.bhaskar.com

Sure, your whole body would have been a lot stronger to, but the legs more so than any other part. Even with a weapon in your hand, you would still need to chase down your target.

So, would it be wrong to say that leg strength is the most important strength you can have? Your legs create the strongest leverage you have. Since your always using your legs when you're doing things, you can hit the hardest, from the farthest away, with the least chance of hurting yourself, and give you the option to run OR fight.

But the needs of people are different now. Obviously, leg strength isn't the end all to fighting.
Why I am I giving this so much thought? The I have a hypothesis that having a fighting method that's closer the we evolved to fight will be more easily applicable to more situations, both mentally and physically. I'm trying to look at peoples' reflexive responses to danger, particularly amongst people that haven't been trained to have a specific response.

Do you think we have a primary natural weapon? Or instinctive fighting mechanics of any sort, or is it purely a learned skill? Do you think certain muscles are more important than others for fighting?

I think it's more of learned skill. If you watch little kids strike each other it seems that common downward slap is what comes naturally to all of them.

 

[tshadowchaser]

want to know what comes natural watch to children fight. They use what is natural for them which includes feet, hands, teeth, running, screaming, and anything they can get their hands on. That's natural fighting for humans

 

[Orange Lightning]

They don't need to punch, have you seen their teeth?

Yeah. But, picture what a fight between an ape and a predator might be like if they could punch with their long, powerful arms. Mostly apes just slam or throw or bite. Hey! I wonder if the downward slamming/slapping thing that kids to is a vestigial instinct left over from apes?

 

[Transk53]

Agreed. Our advanced social skills and ability to work in a unit, plan, and adapt is our greatest advantage. But that's a different thing entirely.

Yes, but not just confined to humans.

 

[Tez3]

Yeah. But, picture what a fight between an ape and a predator might be like if they could punch with their long, powerful arms. Mostly apes just slam or throw or bite. Hey! I wonder if the downward slamming/slapping thing that kids to is a vestigial instinct left over from apes?

My husband was a Rockape, he punches quite well

 

[oftheherd1]

...

We could chase other species into exhaustion. I've heard it estimated by (some scientific show? Can't remember ) that ancient humans could outrun horses, antelope, rabbits, pretty much everything.

Somebody has already corrected this above, but I would like to point out that I think you have a bit of a problem with the way you express things, unless you are doing it on purpose. People don't always understand what you mean.

Surely you don't think mankind, even early man, was able to outrun horses? More stamina to run them down over time, probably so.

As to your original question as I think you meant it, I think our brain that led us to tool making, would be our best weapon. We figured out how to make clubs, spears, pit traps, run animals over cliffs, etc. I don't see we now, or early humans before us, with physical abilities that could match large predators, The speed and strength of the large cats is not something I would want to tangle with. And I would not expect to win with my own superior speed or strength. Inventing spears and clubs for extra distance or penetrating power, or other weapons that were invented like bow and arrow, would all give me a better chance to survive, but even then, one of one, I might not make it. Even a dog or wolf has great speed if if they get close enough to any vital spot, might cause enough injury to kill you or make you easy prey for others if they are in a pack. There are things our brain has taught us that will enhance our chances for survival, but not all will provide any guarantees.

Is that what you were asking, and does that provide an answer?

 

[Orange Lightning]

want to know what comes natural watch to children fight. They use what is natural for them which includes feet, hands, teeth, running, screaming, and anything they can get their hands on. That's natural fighting for humans

For the most part, yeah. Maybe I'm just looking into it to deeply, but I could swear untrained people default to certain types of movement, provided they aren't just going for haymakers.

I have some personal examples, but they are only based on my own experience. I want more data on the subject.
When something startles you, do you put your hands up and take a stance like you've been trained to, or put up your hands in a different way? When I'm startled, I default to a position where my hands are mid level, partially extended, and are relatively close to each other. It don't use a stance like it, but it's in my reflexes for some reason.
My brother is completely untrained. He isn't athletic. But even since he was young, he's had a reflexive blocking method that locks him deflect most body shots. He just lifts his hands up slightly (they hang in front of him about where your hips start and legs end) and just waves his hands in a circular motion while putting his arms together. I always that it ways strange because he didn't have any training at all and never cared about MA, but had a strangely sophisticated and effective blocking method.

At some point it occured to me that my reflexive stance is extremely to where my brother puts his hands when he's preparing to block something, and that blocking technique would be effective from my reflexive stance. My dad (who tells me he used to be really good at Okinawan Shorin Ryu and Boxing) also defaults to this same stance. To be fair though, the Okinawan stance is similar to his reflexive stance. The front hand is lower, but that's about the only difference.

He also takes a boxing stance sometimes.

Is it possible that my brother and I just inherited some part of our dad's reflexes? I don't know. Maybe. It seems to me that something like that would take more time. But I can't ignore the possibility.

http://www.infoplease.com/encyclopedia/science/nervous-system-the-nervous-system-reflexes.html

 

[Argus]

The spear is only 350,000 years old.

Vocalization is likely a product of teamwork, not the other way around.

Fascinating. The amount of energy expended in such a hunt, and seeming risk factor (all of those calories burnt, and no catch to replace them) if your prey escapes over such a drawn out endeavor seems remarkable. But, it also seems as if it would be a rather natural thing; what else will a hungry man do but chase his prey to the ends of the earth?

In response to the OP, I believe that man's natural weapons are his hands, and what he can pick up and use with them. I can't agree that kicking is a good idea, nor a natural one; legs are for carrying you when you need to run down prey, or carrying you away from danger when you are hunted. They also happen to be rather fragile things, and sustaining a debilitating injury on your leg, knee, or feet will certainly impact your ability to survive.

Moreover, kicking is a very unnatural thing, and it removes your mobility and stability for the moment your foot is in the air. I can't imagine you can chase down prey by kicking it, nor could you hope to stop a large predator with a kick; you will simply be knocked to the ground and mauled.

It doesn't take much technical know-how to pick up a force multiplier such as a rock or a stick. If I'm recalling what I have heard correctly, even chimpanzees do this on occasion. Unlike chimps, we do not have the ability to inflict damage on most animals merely by biting them. We can still grab, claw, gouge, choke, and slam other animals, but we also don't have the weight, muscle mass, and over all durability to rely on that kind of tactic. The most natural, and commonsense approach, given that circumstance, is to utilize your hands to pick up an object that you can use as a weapon. I think that, more than anything, is a natural response for humans in a life-or-death situation -- grab something; anything, and use it to your advantage.

 

[Orange Lightning]

Fascinating. The amount of energy expended in such a hunt, and seeming risk factor (all of those calories burnt, and no catch to replace them) if your prey escapes over such a drawn out endeavor seems remarkable. But, it also seems as if it would be a rather natural thing; what else will a hungry man do but chase his prey to the ends of the earth?

In response to the OP, I believe that man's natural weapons are his hands, and what he can pick up and use with them. I can't agree that kicking is a good idea, nor a natural one; legs are for carrying you when you need to run down prey, or carrying you away from danger when you are hunted. They also happen to be rather fragile things, and sustaining a debilitating injury on your leg, knee, or feet will certainly impact your ability to survive.

Moreover, kicking is a very unnatural thing, and it removes your mobility and stability for the moment your foot is in the air. I can't imagine you can chase down prey by kicking it, nor could you hope to stop a large predator with a kick; you will simply be knocked to the ground and mauled.

It doesn't take much technical know-how to pick up a force multiplier such as a rock or a stick. If I'm recalling what I have heard correctly, even chimpanzees do this on occasion. Unlike chimps, we do not have the ability to inflict damage on most animals merely by biting them. We can still grab, claw, gouge, choke, and slam other animals, but we also don't have the weight, muscle mass, and over all durability to rely on that kind of tactic. The most natural, and commonsense approach, given that circumstance, is to utilize your hands to pick up an object that you can use as a weapon. I think that, more than anything, is a natural response for humans in a life-or-death situation -- grab something; anything, and use it to your advantage.

Bigs up to force multipliers.

Distance running actually burns a lot less calories than sprinting. You'll burn a lot more calories if you run for marathon distances all the time, but for normal purposes, you can do a lot of running and not see that much weight loss compared to high intensity exercise like sprinting.

You don't think kicking is useful in a natural situation? - For the record everybody, these are the opinions I'm looking for. - Good point about your legs being vulnerable and them being injured is absolutely terrible. Comparatively though, you the parts of your leg that you use for impact can deal with a lot more than your hands can. Especially with shoes. I think kicking an animal in the leg or face, particularly with the shin, would be a strong argument for the predator to find a different prey. Obviously, this depends on the predator. Things like badgers and coyotes. Not so much pumas or bigger. Given the choice, I would definitely rather kick a badger than punch it. Definitely don't want to get too close. Obviously, if you had a spear or something, you would use that first. Google "girl punches bear". Apparently, lots of bears have been dissuaded with punches. xD
More importantly, strong legs are just a handy thing to have in the forest. If you don't have the proper tool in hand (or you need to make some), strong kicking can be used to break or push things over, as well as help you rip things apart in conjunction with your hands. This I know from experience. You can make a shoddy club with just your feet and a rock (for cutting) in 10 minutes or so.
Kicking in particular though... it has it's uses. Not often, but they can be occasionally handy too. Breaking thin trees for example. Side kicks and axe kicks against wood propped against another tree is handy. There are other ways to break wood without tools though.

 

[VT_Vectis]

I dont think we could ever out run other species like you state. Scientists have computer programs that can calculate running speeds based on bone structure. The human body just doesn't have the proper structure to do that.

I think he's referring less to outrunning them and more to the endurance factor of running them down, think of wolves hunting as opposed to a cheetah.

If you look up the Kalahari bush men you'll see that this is indeed the way they hunt ; using slow acting poisoned arrows o n antelope and then running sometimes half a day tracking it while the poison takes effect. Was a brilliant BBC documentary on them some years back that will no doubt be on YT. I would link to it but I really should be asleep...

Edit: Just read further and saw this point already addressed... Lol will definitely go to bed now

 

[Orange Lightning]

I think he's referring less to outrunning them and more to the endurance factor of running them down, think of wolves hunting as opposed to a cheetah.

If you look up the Kalahari bush men you'll see that this is indeed the way they hunt ; using slow acting poisoned arrows o n antelope and then running sometimes half a day tracking it while the poison takes effect. Was a brilliant BBC documentary on them some years back that will no doubt be on YT. I would link to it but I really should be asleep...

Edit: Just read further and saw this point already addressed... Lol will definitely go to bed now

Much appreciated anyway for finding a good source. lb