D
DoctorB
Guest
Bob Hubbard wrote the following:
Folks,
I've sat back a bit and watched this thing go --way-- in a direction I never intended it to go.
All I was wondering about was some of the history.
It got political, it got personal and it got ugly.
enough for now.
Datu Hoffman will be making his information public shortly.
I believe Paul has the answers he wanted for the moment.
I think that while there are still a few unanswered questions, this thread is best locked, and those topics either taken to PM and email, and the positive parts posted, or at the least, new threads more closely focused on the topics should be made.
If you choose the later, please, keep it civil, and try not to get blood on the walls. The cleaning bill around here latelys been getting a bit nuts.
Thank you.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Therein is the real problem with Modern Arnis and the future. Many people want to make their claims yet soundly reject and deny the claims of others based on what Professor is alledged to have said. There is a long history of charge & counter-charge
plus a considerable amount of duplicity within Modern Arnis and I have seen quite a bit of it since 1981 when I first got into training with my instructor Sifu Don Zanghi. I got out of the mess in 1994 after one too many incidences started by Professor himself.
The problem for you, Bob, is that no matter what you or anyone else tries to start, including myself, the vicious, the ugly and the nasty elements that are at the bedrock of the Modern Arnis organizations will always come bubbling to the surface.
Due to two deaths in my family and the necessity to get involved in the things that accompany that situation, I did not participate in the thread on Who's Who after a couple of early posts. But the comments that I read and given the posts of Paul Janulis, Dan Anderson and David Hoffman in particular, you can see the issues emerge and develop. Closing the thread is your option to exercise, however, the grit, grime and dishonesty will not disappear.
I have received 15 private e-mails telling me in various ways that I have taken on a thankless task in organizing the Symposium. ALL of the writers acknowledged that the Symposium was a good idea and a necessary item, however 11 of the writers were not going to attend because of one or two people who are on the instructional program. The "politics" of the past has infected their thinking processes and their anger at someone has deprived these people of their ability to see beyond the immediate moment.
Think about it Bob, 10 - 30 people were considered for leadership of Professor retired. That's a lot of people for an organization that very little structure in the first place. Think about all of the titles that have floated around in Modern Arnis under Professor.
The only one with any longivity was "Datu"!!! That and the numers 10 - 30 should be a real eye-opener for a lot of people, but I doubt that it will actually happen! Why? Because it is easier to take the self serving positions based on what Professor is alledged to have said to this person or that. The drama continued right up to his death.
If I read the comments of Datu Kelly Worden correctly, in his article published last month in CFW's "Filipino Martial Arts" Professor left the Grand Mastership of Modern Arnis to his grandson!!! That sure as hell puts a whole new light on the relevance of Marppio, the MoTTs and Mr. Delaney from an organizational perspective doesn't it?
I was not one bit surprised that the Who's Who thread got heated. It was to be expected. There are too many claims out there regarding leadership and who is or is not preserving the art as taught by Professor Presas. That bunch of titles, all the promises and statements, the 10 to 30 people slated as possible future leaders of the art are clear are compelling information to me with regard to the future of Modern Arnis and the picture is not a pretty one.
I organized the Symposium on one very compelling premise - Skill is the final arbitor of Real and significant Rank. My second premise is that people need to come together to talk to one another and listen carefully to what is being said. The politics will not end but the intensity can be diminished if people understand where the real sources of the problems are in Modern Arnis.
My third premise is that no one will emerge from the Symposium as the new consenus leader of the new "Post-Professor Era" of Modern Arnis, however, we all will have an opportunity to 'cross-train' within the art because of the 12 instructors who will be present and teaching. My fourth and final premise is that the Symposium is a significant historical event within Modern Arnis because it represents the frist time that there has been a collective collaberation between so many instructors and they cross over the sub-organizational divisions and independents within art.
I recognize that the last premise is difficult and uncomfortable for some people who still want to idealize Professor and stick to the predictable summer camp mode of days gone by. However for those willing to take some chances, the Symposium offers a viable opportunity to see what others have and currently are doing to make the art grow3as a living entity.
It will be very interesting to read what David Hoffman has to say when his post comes out, but I am moving forward with the Symposium because that is the future not the past. We will make histroy within the art and those who miss it will have to settle for written accounts, photos and videotape...
Jerome Barber, Ed.D.
Folks,
I've sat back a bit and watched this thing go --way-- in a direction I never intended it to go.
All I was wondering about was some of the history.
It got political, it got personal and it got ugly.
enough for now.
Datu Hoffman will be making his information public shortly.
I believe Paul has the answers he wanted for the moment.
I think that while there are still a few unanswered questions, this thread is best locked, and those topics either taken to PM and email, and the positive parts posted, or at the least, new threads more closely focused on the topics should be made.
If you choose the later, please, keep it civil, and try not to get blood on the walls. The cleaning bill around here latelys been getting a bit nuts.
Thank you.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Therein is the real problem with Modern Arnis and the future. Many people want to make their claims yet soundly reject and deny the claims of others based on what Professor is alledged to have said. There is a long history of charge & counter-charge
plus a considerable amount of duplicity within Modern Arnis and I have seen quite a bit of it since 1981 when I first got into training with my instructor Sifu Don Zanghi. I got out of the mess in 1994 after one too many incidences started by Professor himself.
The problem for you, Bob, is that no matter what you or anyone else tries to start, including myself, the vicious, the ugly and the nasty elements that are at the bedrock of the Modern Arnis organizations will always come bubbling to the surface.
Due to two deaths in my family and the necessity to get involved in the things that accompany that situation, I did not participate in the thread on Who's Who after a couple of early posts. But the comments that I read and given the posts of Paul Janulis, Dan Anderson and David Hoffman in particular, you can see the issues emerge and develop. Closing the thread is your option to exercise, however, the grit, grime and dishonesty will not disappear.
I have received 15 private e-mails telling me in various ways that I have taken on a thankless task in organizing the Symposium. ALL of the writers acknowledged that the Symposium was a good idea and a necessary item, however 11 of the writers were not going to attend because of one or two people who are on the instructional program. The "politics" of the past has infected their thinking processes and their anger at someone has deprived these people of their ability to see beyond the immediate moment.
Think about it Bob, 10 - 30 people were considered for leadership of Professor retired. That's a lot of people for an organization that very little structure in the first place. Think about all of the titles that have floated around in Modern Arnis under Professor.
The only one with any longivity was "Datu"!!! That and the numers 10 - 30 should be a real eye-opener for a lot of people, but I doubt that it will actually happen! Why? Because it is easier to take the self serving positions based on what Professor is alledged to have said to this person or that. The drama continued right up to his death.
If I read the comments of Datu Kelly Worden correctly, in his article published last month in CFW's "Filipino Martial Arts" Professor left the Grand Mastership of Modern Arnis to his grandson!!! That sure as hell puts a whole new light on the relevance of Marppio, the MoTTs and Mr. Delaney from an organizational perspective doesn't it?
I was not one bit surprised that the Who's Who thread got heated. It was to be expected. There are too many claims out there regarding leadership and who is or is not preserving the art as taught by Professor Presas. That bunch of titles, all the promises and statements, the 10 to 30 people slated as possible future leaders of the art are clear are compelling information to me with regard to the future of Modern Arnis and the picture is not a pretty one.
I organized the Symposium on one very compelling premise - Skill is the final arbitor of Real and significant Rank. My second premise is that people need to come together to talk to one another and listen carefully to what is being said. The politics will not end but the intensity can be diminished if people understand where the real sources of the problems are in Modern Arnis.
My third premise is that no one will emerge from the Symposium as the new consenus leader of the new "Post-Professor Era" of Modern Arnis, however, we all will have an opportunity to 'cross-train' within the art because of the 12 instructors who will be present and teaching. My fourth and final premise is that the Symposium is a significant historical event within Modern Arnis because it represents the frist time that there has been a collective collaberation between so many instructors and they cross over the sub-organizational divisions and independents within art.
I recognize that the last premise is difficult and uncomfortable for some people who still want to idealize Professor and stick to the predictable summer camp mode of days gone by. However for those willing to take some chances, the Symposium offers a viable opportunity to see what others have and currently are doing to make the art grow3as a living entity.
It will be very interesting to read what David Hoffman has to say when his post comes out, but I am moving forward with the Symposium because that is the future not the past. We will make histroy within the art and those who miss it will have to settle for written accounts, photos and videotape...
Jerome Barber, Ed.D.
