Thanks, UFC!

[Marnetmar]

Before I get started, I apologize if this rant is incoherent or hard to follow. It's just that things like this make me furious.

To begin, I'm not bashing MMA in its literal definition, and I'm not going about this from an "it's too violent" or an "if Bak Hok Bei Lung Hou Bou Caau (White Crane Giving Dragon Blowjob) techniques were allowed they'd all be dead" or a "hurr durr, grappling is gay because they're not wailing on each other the whole time" perspective.

What I'm ranting about here is the fact that with the dawn of things like the UFC, martial arts have become a spor--Stay there and let me finish, I know what you're thinking.

I have no problem with martial arts competitions in and of themselves. I think the concept is great, as it requires the practitioner to train hard and be the best he can be at what he does so he's prepared for whatever comes at him. However, here's the issue:

People like competition. Competition gets attention. There's nothing wrong with this either. It's a natural part of the human condition that won't be going away any time soon.

However, what happens when these competitions are made to last as long as possible to satisfy viewers, and then this is mass produced and marketed to millions of people? It attracts the wrong kind of people to martial arts.

In my opinion, the most beautiful and admirable aspect of training martial arts, especially arts like Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, is the fact that it allows a smaller person to easily overcome a 6'2, 250 pound guy who tries to attack him. That's amazing. If your five-year old son Jimmy takes a martial art, it's likely so that he can defend himself against the big bully that lives across the street who picks on him.

Bigger, stronger, more dangerous people are the reason people learn martial arts in the first place.

Now then, with the dawn of things like the UFC, these people who are huge, powerful, meatheads and likely criminals who are attracted to these competitions are the ones learning martial arts. Your typical UFC fighter is going to exhibit the following characteristics; he's going to be:

A. Huge
B. Muscular
C. Extremely athletic.

In other words, he looks like this:

It's not that this is a bad thing but rather that this is what's required to succeed in extremely long matches and people would rather watch two huge guys duke it out than two little Asian guys.

Here's the issue:

This image is exactly what people are thinking of when they train martial arts in the first place.

Because of the commercialization of the martial arts, the people learning Brazilian Jiu Jitsu aren't the skinny teenager who gets picked on in school or the frail old man who has no way to defend himself. Instead, it's the 6'2, 250 pound guy mentioned previously that's learning them.

Because of the commercialization of the martial arts, the world is a more dangerous place. The martial arts have fallen into the hands of people who like to abuse their power to get their way, and they have learned the most dangerous techniques possible.

There is nothing wrong with learning dangerous techniques. It's the hands that they fall into.

Little Jimmy's in the hospital now because the bully across the street put him in the chokehold he learned from his big brother. All the thugs and bullies in your local high school know how to fight and kill now.

Thanks, UFC!

 

[Gnarlie]

All the thugs and bullies in your local high school know how to fight and kill now.

Thanks, UFC!

I disagree with most of the points you've made, for two reasons:

1)There's a world of difference between watching and actually training. Those thugs and bullies generally watch on TV and attempt to copy, and it's ineffective. This is evident when you ask an armchair UFC fan to put a choke on you and it's laughable. I've had a few of these types come into classes, and they never last long. They want the results without the hard graft.

2)Little Jimmy is just as entitled to practice martial arts as the thugs and bullies, more fool him if he doesn't. Actual martial arts training discourages bullying behaviour if it's any good.

I think the UFC works hard to present a clean and honourable image, and I think they manage it well. The athletic demands of the sport are such that you it has to be lived. There's no room for crime and bad behaviour.



Gnarlie

 

[Tony Dismukes]

There's nothing new about thugs and bullies learning martial arts. It's happened for as long as there have been martial arts. Most of them don't have the discipline to stay with the training for the long haul, but some do. Of those that do continue training, many have their aggression channeled into more healthy directions than criminality and bullying, but some don't.

I've seen exactly zero evidence to show that this has changed in any meaningful way since the advent of the UFC. Do you have any to offer? From my own experience - I train at a BJJ/MMA/Muay Thai/Boxing gym with an active stable of fighters. There are more skinny teenagers than 250-pound juggernauts. Also, the 250-pound juggernauts are generally very nice people - not thugs or bullies.

BTW - did you know that the UFC has weight classes? Some of the biggest stars are in the lighter weight classes. They are fantastically fit, but not huge.

 

[Steve]

And if you don't think thin, nerdy guys train in BJJ, you're way off base. The beauty of BJJ is that physics works regardless of your size, and technique trumps brute strength any time.

While strength, size and technique can beat out technique, there are too many engineers, doctors, surgeons, and computer geeks training in BJJ for me to buy that fundamental premise of your argument.

 

[K-man]

I'm afraid to say, I don't think it's an accurate assessment of the situation. Competitive sport has been around since man arrived on the planet. It was formalised in recognisable form by the ancient Greeks. When I was growing up I was the weakest scrawniness kid around, luckily I could run fast. The local youth club ran boxing classes which I started in when I was 9 or 10. There were no 'Martial Arts' in Australia back then. If you walked into any of the boxing gyms back then there was always a sprinkling of big tough guys and they weren't all on the right side of the law.

Bring the clock forward 50 years and what has changed? There are still big tough guys hanging around the gyms. There are still scrawny weak kids trying to bulk up and not all these guys are on the right side of the law. But let's look at MMA. I think it's a lot different to the boxing guy pounding the crap out of a heavy bag in the boxing gym. Is that guy any more likely than any other to want to actually fight in the ring? Probably not. Does he need a lot of skill to go into the ring? Not really. We used to have touring boxing tents going around Australia (they have been banned in most states now), but if you do find one it is interesting to see the young cocks with no training mix it with a trained boxer. Most times the boxer just lets the guy have some fun but occasionally you get an interesting match where the challenger prevails. Could you do that in MMA? I think not.

To get into an MMA match you need to be proficient on your feet, in a clinch and on the ground. That takes a fair bit of training and most of those guys are dedicated to the training. They are normally not the ones causing trouble in the bars because they have an outlet in the ring if they want to utilise it. At the professional level the training is even more intense. How many street punks are going to put in the time and effort, not to mention the dollars, to become proficient in fighting when they can just pick on someone on the street who looks smaller and weaker and just lay into them?

I have only trained in an MMA class once. There was no one that looked like a meathead. There was no one being disrespectful or throwing their weight around. There were some big tough looking guys, lots of tats but no one I felt in any way shouldn't have been training there.

If I was a thug wanting to pick up fighting skills in a hurry, there is no way I would be going off to learn BJJ or MMA. I'd be off to one of the RBSD places like Krav. Even then, depending on his attitude, the instructor may decide there could be future problems. Then you have someone like me saying "perhaps you're not suited to this training". That's the reason we don't teach kids Krav. We want people with a reasonable degree of social maturity before we start teaching them what is in fact unrestrained violence.

I would point the finger at many things causing an increase in community violence but UFC would be way down the list.
:asian:

 

[drop bear]

Suri stick fighting is one of the oldest traditional martial arts there is.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=q_bT47aoruw

It is not designed so that a skinny guy does not get picked on. It is so everybody knows who the big dogs are.

Honestly this karate kid stuff is the new invention.

 

[drop bear]

And if you don't think thin, nerdy guys train in BJJ, you're way off base. The beauty of BJJ is that physics works regardless of your size, and technique trumps brute strength any time.

While strength, size and technique can beat out technique, there are too many engineers, doctors, surgeons, and computer geeks training in BJJ for me to buy that fundamental premise of your argument.

And some of those geeks are big fit guys. There is no rule about that either.
Georges St-Pierre and the 15 Biggest Nerds in MMA | Bleacher Report

 

[Grenadier]

Most thugs aren't going to have the patience and discipline to become very good at a martial art. It takes many months of time, dedication, and the desire to elevate yourself, to advance in a respectable martial arts system.

How many common punks and thugs do you know of, who actually had the goods (both physical and mental) to train for a couple of years to become at least a blue belt in Brazilian Jiu Jitsu? How many such individuals would take several hours out of the week to train at a Karate dojo for three years, in order to get his black belt?

Also, you're not going to get very good in a martial arts system, unless you believe in it.

If you have an individual who actually does spend multiple hours a week in the dojo, then he certainly has better things to do that to be a commonplace bully. If he values the training that much, then he's usually not going to risk losing his access to it over trying to steal lunch money from others, or whatever have you.

 

[Buka]

I wouldn't even know how to start discussing anything said in the OP, other than - "Say what????"

 

[Balrog]

In other words, he looks like this:

It's not that this is a bad thing but rather that this is what's required to succeed in extremely long matches and people would rather watch two huge guys duke it out than two little Asian guys.

Here's the issue:

This image is exactly what people are thinking of when they train martial arts in the first place.

Because of the commercialization of the martial arts, the people learning Brazilian Jiu Jitsu aren't the skinny teenager who gets picked on in school or the frail old man who has no way to defend himself. Instead, it's the 6'2, 250 pound guy mentioned previously that's learning them.

Agreed. And it's because of the perception put out by UFC et al. Most parents now think that this is what martial arts training of any kind is like. You cannot begin to believe how hard I have to work to overcome that misconception. It used to be that all I had to overcome was fundies thinking I was going to teach little Johnny some strange Oriental voodoo religion; now it's soccer moms who think I have a tattoo parlor in the back room just waiting for their kids.

 

[Wo Fat]

There's something to the concerns of the OP. But then thugs and hoodlums have always abused martial arts. I'm not convinced that the UFC is thuggery in and of itself, but MMA itself does tend to attract a thuggish and low brow element. Not in all cases, but too many.

That said, martial arts is about personal protection through unarmed combat. It has evolved over the centuries because the villain has evolved. It seems that the villain, at least in the eye of the OP, is no longer the unskilled and unwitting doofus who punches like a statue, but a big strong dude with just enough You Tube training to be dangerous.

That may be intimidating to the traditional martial artist. Maybe then, it's time for traditional arts to evolve with the times--and the villains.

 

[wimwag]

My opinion of the TapOut fad...just because someone spits in a cup until it is full doesn't make it a cup of water or refreshing. Wearing TapOut shirts and hats and practicing a choke hold your brother's friend's cousin's dad taught him after he took a $25 two hour MMA class in community ed doesn't make a martial artist. Or a fighter. It makes a moron who may or may not know a choke hold.

 

[drop bear]

Just as many duchebags in tma.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=g4GEB7lhKBA

 

[drop bear]

Almost a side issue.

Martial arts bullying.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LoW9loOlJuw

And yes mma knocks dudes out but they are also fighting back.

 

[MJS]

Before I get started, I apologize if this rant is incoherent or hard to follow. It's just that things like this make me furious.

To begin, I'm not bashing MMA in its literal definition, and I'm not going about this from an "it's too violent" or an "if Bak Hok Bei Lung Hou Bou Caau (White Crane Giving Dragon Blowjob) techniques were allowed they'd all be dead" or a "hurr durr, grappling is gay because they're not wailing on each other the whole time" perspective.

What I'm ranting about here is the fact that with the dawn of things like the UFC, martial arts have become a spor--Stay there and let me finish, I know what you're thinking.

I have no problem with martial arts competitions in and of themselves. I think the concept is great, as it requires the practitioner to train hard and be the best he can be at what he does so he's prepared for whatever comes at him. However, here's the issue:

People like competition. Competition gets attention. There's nothing wrong with this either. It's a natural part of the human condition that won't be going away any time soon.

However, what happens when these competitions are made to last as long as possible to satisfy viewers, and then this is mass produced and marketed to millions of people? It attracts the wrong kind of people to martial arts.

In my opinion, the most beautiful and admirable aspect of training martial arts, especially arts like Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, is the fact that it allows a smaller person to easily overcome a 6'2, 250 pound guy who tries to attack him. That's amazing. If your five-year old son Jimmy takes a martial art, it's likely so that he can defend himself against the big bully that lives across the street who picks on him.

Bigger, stronger, more dangerous people are the reason people learn martial arts in the first place.

Now then, with the dawn of things like the UFC, these people who are huge, powerful, meatheads and likely criminals who are attracted to these competitions are the ones learning martial arts. Your typical UFC fighter is going to exhibit the following characteristics; he's going to be:

A. Huge
B. Muscular
C. Extremely athletic.

In other words, he looks like this:

It's not that this is a bad thing but rather that this is what's required to succeed in extremely long matches and people would rather watch two huge guys duke it out than two little Asian guys.

Here's the issue:

This image is exactly what people are thinking of when they train martial arts in the first place.

Because of the commercialization of the martial arts, the people learning Brazilian Jiu Jitsu aren't the skinny teenager who gets picked on in school or the frail old man who has no way to defend himself. Instead, it's the 6'2, 250 pound guy mentioned previously that's learning them.

Because of the commercialization of the martial arts, the world is a more dangerous place. The martial arts have fallen into the hands of people who like to abuse their power to get their way, and they have learned the most dangerous techniques possible.

There is nothing wrong with learning dangerous techniques. It's the hands that they fall into.

Little Jimmy's in the hospital now because the bully across the street put him in the chokehold he learned from his big brother. All the thugs and bullies in your local high school know how to fight and kill now.

Thanks, UFC!

I have to agree with the others here. It is true, that many 'wanna-be's' watch TUF/UFC, etc, and run out to the backyard and pretend they're the next Chuck, Randy, or (insert your fav. fighter here) but the fact remains, there are just as many idiots in other arts, so, I'm not really sure where you're going with this.

 

[Grenadier]

Regarding the wannabe folks, I'm doubt that you can pin the blame on the image that the UFC presents.

Even if you took the UFC off the air, did the usual Bloomberg-style character assassination attempts against the organization and Dana White, passed laws forbidding any kind of full contact competitions, etc., those same bullies / thugs would have simply gotten their aspirations elsewhere. After all, anyone who fits the bill, can get more ideas simply by watching television, whether it be violent movies, or even the news.

 

[RTKDCMB]

Almost a side issue.

Martial arts bullying.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LoW9loOlJuw

And yes mma knocks dudes out but they are also fighting back.

Its hard to tell from that video but it sounds a bit like the person who made the video is painting all martial arts teachers with the same brush, especially this part;

"Martial Arts Teachers BULLYING people by HITTING them with their guard down. Could also be called, Martial Arts usual mode of operation".

 

[MJS]

Regarding the wannabe folks, I'm doubt that you can pin the blame on the image that the UFC presents.

Even if you took the UFC off the air, did the usual Bloomberg-style character assassination attempts against the organization and Dana White, passed laws forbidding any kind of full contact competitions, etc., those same bullies / thugs would have simply gotten their aspirations elsewhere. After all, anyone who fits the bill, can get more ideas simply by watching television, whether it be violent movies, or even the news.

Oh, I wasn't putting the blame on the UFC. I mean, that's akin to putting the blame on cartoon violence, for some idiot kid, blowing his hand off with a firecracker, because he saw it on tv. Let's face it though...the UFC is popular. I mean, you're more likely to see someone mimic their favorite fighter, rather than you would see them mimic someone doing TKD. Now, I'm not saying that it couldn't happen, but I wouldn't put it high on the list. LOL.

 

[drop bear]

QUOTE=RTKDCMB;1634155]Its hard to tell from that video but it sounds a bit like the person who made the video is painting all martial arts teachers with the same brush, especially this part;

"Martial Arts Teachers BULLYING people by HITTING them with their guard down. Could also be called, Martial Arts usual mode of operation".[/QUOTE]


Yeah the vid was a bit intense.

 

[RTKDCMB]

Yeah the vid was a bit intense.

I watched some of his other videos and they are all like that. Makes me wonder.