Texas Bans Execution Last Meals

[Makalakumu]

We are talking about a few individuals who did a great deal of damage to society and if turned lose again will repeat their actions.

How do you know these lives are worth taking? How do you know these lives are of no value? How do you know that the idea of damage won't be defined and redefined again by faceless bureaucracies until it reaches a point where it lets loose in society and a "few individuals" just need to get murdered for the "good of everyone"?

 

[granfire]

How do you know these lives are worth taking? How do you know these lives are of no value? How do you know that the idea of damage won't be defined and redefined again by faceless bureaucracies until it reaches a point where it lets loose in society and a "few individuals" just need to get murdered for the "good of everyone"?

Good question.

How can you however put a value on such a life? I mean, a positive one.

Yes, I think that not all life is worth preserving. On many levels.
There are individuals who eat away on the fabric of society and humanity like a cancer.
Cancer is nothing like body cells, right. But if left unchecked they eat away the healthy tissue and kill the organism.

Read some of the stuff Manny has reported from his home town.

Personally i think the option of warehousing serial offenders in prisons and mental institutions is far less humane than a final option.
Like I said, you don't cage up dogs infinitely when they can't function outside the cage.

There was just the other night a thing on TV about a guy with a fully equipped rape room...with all the gadgets you can ever imagine in a sick mind to use a woman. The very thought of such a sick mind is frightening.

 

[Steve]

The guy ordered all this, knowing that he a) couldn't possibly eat it all or b) wasn't going to eat anything. The staff gave all of this to him. Now, either they really thought he'd eat it all or they're just very stupid. In any case, sure, I'm all for giving them a last meal. But, lets be serious here....it has to be something within reason. I mean, the amount of food this clown ordered, would feed 6 people. Order 1 or 2 things, and thats it. No need for a 6 course meal.

As for how long they have to sit on death row....yeah, I agree...if people can't get their **** together and figure out if the guy is guilty or innocent, then the system and everyone thats a part of it, really is ****ed. But thats another thread.

The amount of money it cost to give this guy everything he asked for couldn't have been more than a couple hundred bucks... literally a drop in the ocean of how much money we, as taxpayers, paid to incarcerate him and execute him. I think this is a debate is like discussing the wallpaper in a condemned building. The wallpaper might suck, but for Pete's sake, does it matter?

 

[Makalakumu]

The very thought of such a sick mind is frightening.

If that brain is in a cage, what is the threat? Could such a brain be productive within the confines of a cage?

 

[Monroe]

If that brain is in a cage, what is the threat? Could such a brain be productive within the confines of a cage?

I'd rather see them dead, maybe I lack moral fiber. I don't want to see them remain in this world. But until they make the death penalty process cheaper than life in prison, I prefer spending the difference on other things.

 

[billc]

The threat is to guards, other prisoners and anyone who might run across this guy if he manages to escape or the guards he may injure during his twenty some odd years in jail. In the cases of no doubt, john wayne gacey or ted bundy, executing them is justice. If you take away the life of an innocent person, you forfeit your own. People may say it is more cruel to let them live in prison for the rest of their life, but people can adapt to just about any situation. Take your time to make sure you have the right guy and then immediately execute them, no last meal.

There is a show on MSNBC about life in the prisons of the U.S. More people should watch it so you can see exactly the types of monsters are locked away "for life." I remember one episode where the inmate would get glass from the workshop, grind it into a dust and throw it into the faces of the guards, in order to blind them. He said that as the guard would rub his face, it would scrape the skin bloody. These are the types of things that the death penalty would eventually stop.

I have to say the the moral stance is to support the death penalty.

 

[Buka]

What is the bottom line fear of most human beings? Death. Oh, sure, we have other fears, but death is the universal, it is the given, it is hard wired into our physiology as self preservation. Ahhh, but there is an exception to lingering death by disease, starvation, to the horror of being helpless, tortured and slaughtered by a cold hearted killer. There is the death of a king.
Sodium thiopental, a peaceful ease to unconscious. Then, painless, fearless, a lethal injection. Death like a king. But THAT is reserved for the very few.

May none of you, your family, your friends, ever be a victim. May none of you ever be the first arriving officer on scene. May you all stay safe. May our species finally take action against those that do not let others live in peace.

 

[Makalakumu]

The threat is to guards, other prisoners and anyone who might run across this guy if he manages to escape or the guards he may injure during his twenty some odd years in jail. In the cases of no doubt, john wayne gacey or ted bundy, executing them is justice. If you take away the life of an innocent person, you forfeit your own. People may say it is more cruel to let them live in prison for the rest of their life, but people can adapt to just about any situation. Take your time to make sure you have the right guy and then immediately execute them, no last meal.

There is a show on MSNBC about life in the prisons of the U.S. More people should watch it so you can see exactly the types of monsters are locked away "for life." I remember one episode where the inmate would get glass from the workshop, grind it into a dust and throw it into the faces of the guards, in order to blind them. He said that as the guard would rub his face, it would scrape the skin bloody. These are the types of things that the death penalty would eventually stop.

I have to say the the moral stance is to support the death penalty.

If an inmate attacks a guard, wouldn't it be appropriate to use deadly force? I think so. Why do we have to take it farther then that?

The problem with this line of reasoning is that it's not applied consistently. A life for a life has a lot of caveats. Also, how is justice served by taking life? What separates "death penalty justice" from revenge? Is revenge an appropriate form of justice?

 

[granfire]

If that brain is in a cage, what is the threat? Could such a brain be productive within the confines of a cage?

There is always the possibility of that caged brain to be set free.

 

[Monroe]

What is the bottom line fear of most human beings? Death. Oh, sure, we have other fears, but death is the universal, it is the given, it is hard wired into our physiology as self preservation. Ahhh, but there is an exception to lingering death by disease, starvation, to the horror of being helpless, tortured and slaughtered by a cold hearted killer. There is the death of a king.
Sodium thiopental, a peaceful ease to unconscious. Then, painless, fearless, a lethal injection. Death like a king. But THAT is reserved for the very few.

May none of you, your family, your friends, ever be a victim. May none of you ever be the first arriving officer on scene. May you all stay safe. May our species finally take action against those that do not let others live in peace.

That's quite the assumption that no one on here has been or victim or is close to a victim.

 

[Makalakumu]

There is always the possibility of that caged brain to be set free.

Are we killing a brain for something it might be responsible for in the future?

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[granfire]

Are we killing a brain for something it might be responsible for in the future?

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The best indicator for future behavior is past behavior.

 

[Makalakumu]

The best indicator for future behavior is past behavior.

Until it isn't.

We're stilling killing someone for something they might do if we assume the moral principle you are using.

 

[granfire]

Until it isn't.

We're stilling killing someone for something they might do if we assume the moral principle you are using.

No, we are talking about people who have displayed disregard for other people's lives and societies rules.

Set them adrift on an icefloat in the arctic, for all I care. But remove them permanently from society.


No, actually we were talking about denying a condemned person a choice of last meal/comfort food.

 

[Makalakumu]

No, we are talking about people who have displayed disregard for other people's lives and societies rules.

Set them adrift on an icefloat in the arctic, for all I care. But remove them permanently from society.


No, actually we were talking about denying a condemned person a choice of last meal/comfort food.

Like I said before it's kind of like taking away the cherry on fecal matter sundae. The whole thing stinks and you can't ignore it...but we can talk about the cherry all day and pretend like there isn't a turd in the room I guess.

 

[granfire]

Like I said before it's kind of like taking away the cherry on fecal matter sundae. The whole thing stinks and you can't ignore it...but we can talk about the cherry all day and pretend like there isn't a turd in the room I guess.

Interesting way to put it.

I do believe in the sanctity of life.

But that does not mean I believe that all life has to be preserved at all cost.

Capital punishment is as old as human interaction.

There have always been offenses that forfitted the offender's life: When ever the actions are deemed too disruptive for the continuum of society.
Murder has always been on the top of the list (and pretty early on there were exemptions)
Rape was another, especially the attack on the innocent, AKA virgins.

The notion that a human life has to be preserved at all cost, no matter what is really new.
And frankly, not all that beneficial for the greater good of humanity.


In this context maybe Predators ought to be suggested as reading material. Of perpetrators who leave a wake of destruction and don't seem to stop their evil deeds.
http://www.amazon.com/Predators-Ped...r_1_22?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1317216392&sr=1-22

 

[MJS]

How do you know these lives are worth taking? How do you know these lives are of no value? How do you know that the idea of damage won't be defined and redefined again by faceless bureaucracies until it reaches a point where it lets loose in society and a "few individuals" just need to get murdered for the "good of everyone"?

Because some people just dont want to be helped. If this guy committed some horrible crime, such as the trial thats taking place this moment, with the 2nd suspect in a home invasion here in CT, people like that, have, IMO, no remorse for himan life. OTOH, its interesting...suspect #1, who's already on death row, is getting tossed under the bus by suspect #2. #2, makes it seem as though he didn't want the situation to get as far as it did, which was, lets see....the husband getting whacked numeorus times on the head with a bat. He was the only survivor BTW. The wife and 2 daughters...well, they all died, oh yeah, and the house was lit on fire too.

Sorry, people like that can't IMO, be rehabilitated. Some people need to cap their bleeding hearts and come to the understanding that you can't rehab **** like that!

 

[MJS]

The amount of money it cost to give this guy everything he asked for couldn't have been more than a couple hundred bucks... literally a drop in the ocean of how much money we, as taxpayers, paid to incarcerate him and execute him. I think this is a debate is like discussing the wallpaper in a condemned building. The wallpaper might suck, but for Pete's sake, does it matter?

True. Hey, like I said, I'm all for giving someone a last meal, of whatever they wish. But regardless of cost, the guy was a dick for doing what he did, and the staff was just plain stupid. But thats just my opinion. Kill the guy, keep him locked for life with no parole....either way, if the person is that much of a dirtbag, pick an option and roll with it.

 

[MJS]

If an inmate attacks a guard, wouldn't it be appropriate to use deadly force? I think so. Why do we have to take it farther then that?

As tempting as it is, it doesn't work that way. This is just one of the things that one of my insts. investigates as part of his job. He's a Capt. in the DOC. He's had to look at many use of force cases, some of which have been perfectly justified for what the inmates did to the CO, and in many cases, the COs actions werent justified.

 

[Makalakumu]

If the sanctity of life is worth protecting, its worth protecting in all cases. The exceptions nullify it as a moral precept. They make it arbitrary and relative. That's why the greater good is always used to justify the murder of undesirables. Sometimes morality forces you into tough decisions. This is one of them.

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