Tell us about your home gym....

[JowGaWolf]

There are a lot of complex interactions going on here. It's true that you can train for particular activities and improve your strength for those activities specific requirements and you will get benefits. It's also true that your genetics will play a role in how successful you are at adapting yourself to those activities and determine the absolute potential that you might reach at your peak. Some things are entirely genetically determined, others are largely genetically determined once you're a fully matured adult, some things are partially genetically determined and other things are pretty plastic.

Top performers in any athletic endeavor tend to look similar because they have the attributes that are most advantageous for that sport. There are of course outliers who break the mold because they have some other asset in which they a excel that allows them to overcome their deficiencies in other areas. Many of these characteristics are genetically fixed and can't be altered by anything short of major surgery. Some of them can be largely developed through training and some are in between.

Some of these are obvious and pretty fully understood. If you want to play pro basketball you better be over 6' tall or have some really extraordinarily, amazing athletic abilities to compensate for your lack of height. We know that once you're full grown you aren't getting any taller outside of hazardous leg lengthening surgery. Muscle belly length is another example. Not gonna change once you're an adult and your potential for muscle belly length probably isn't going to change once you're conceived. If you've got really short muscle bellies you aren't likely to be a pro bodybuilder not matter how hard you work, though you can still probably get really strong.

On the other end of the spectrum is skill development. Anyone can get good coaching and practice and improve their skill, though some people seem to have different aptitudes than others. Things like muscle fiber type distribution fall somewhere in the middle. It is probably largely, but not completely, genetically determined, but it can be shifted to some degree, not yet well established by research, towards fast or slow twitch fibers by training choices. VO2 max also falls in this category. Most evidence indicates that it is very largely genetically determined but can be improved somewhat, perhaps as much as 25%, likely more like 15-20%, but the rest is what you were born with.

Many of these observations represent a complex interaction of these factors. Sprinters and marathoners look different for a number of reasons. Sure, sprinters and marathoners train differently and if they switched to the opposite sport it would change their appearance to some degree. That's because everyone has a range of muscularity that they can develop and training is going to impact their musculature within the range that their genetics allow. This range is individual however, so it would take a genetically very unusual person to have the genes to be both a world class sprinter and a world class marathoner. Suggesting that Eliud Kipchoge would look like Usain Bolt and be able to sprint like him if he would just train for sprints is almost as silly as saying that I'd get to be as tall as Tacko Fall if only I'd put a lot of hours into playing center.


Again, a lot of complex interactions. Rock climbing is very skill dependent. Just like knowing how to throw someone in martial arts can feel effortless if you know how to do it and feel impossible if you don't, the same goes for a lot of rock climbing. Also, someone who has the genetic potential to be a pro bodybuilder, while potentially very strong, is also likely going to lack a lot of the other characteristics that make for a good rock climber. Since rock climbing is heavily skill dependent, sure that potential bodybuilder can probably get pretty good at rock climbing, but he's never going to be world class unless he's extraordinary in some other fashion.

I'm only referring the ability to do something. I don't get into genetics until things turn into "best prefomance" that's when average people get weeded out and genetics becoming increasingly important. Anyone can compete in swimming but there's a natural build and genetics when it comes tobeing among the best. It is what it is. At most, many people are going to be good at things. There are very few people that I met who couldn't overcome horrible. But being the best is as you state, lots to do with genetics.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

I'm only referring the ability to do something.

During the

- ancient time, people have to develop certain MA skill first before they can try to polish and enhance it. So when they use equipment training, they already know which MA skill that they want to enhance on.
- modern time, people try to be strong first before they start to develop MA skill.

Most of the discussion are on which method is better.

For example, the following long bag training is trying to develop a strong grip when you hold on your opponent's clothes and drag him around. If the circle dragging is not your strategy, this kind of grip strength may not be important to you.

- In jacket wrestling, you may use your monster grip strength to hold on your opponent so he can't attack you.
- In non-jacket wrestling, you can use your grip strength to pull your opponent's skin and muscle.
- In striking art, this kind of grip strength may not be that useful to you This is why most strikers don't train grip strength.

The long bag training is good for developing grip strength. When the weight is pulling the bag away from you, your grip strength has to fight against that pulling force. This is more dynamic training than just the static training.

 

[Alan0354]

This is what I do for my grip every week:

Call the above Grip1, Grip2

Call these Grip3 and Grip4.


I do these exercise ONE time a week mostly on Monday night when I am watching tv. I do 15reps for each set. The sequence of sets are:

3 X Grip1, 3 X Grip2, 3 X Grip1, 3 X Grip2, 3 X Grip3, 3 X Grip4, 3 X Grip3, 3 X Grip4. Total of 24 sets for each hand. Then I repeat the whole sequence again. That's it. Takes about 23 minutes.

This is pretty old school, no catching fish, no long bag, no belt cracking, no climbing.

 

[Oily Dragon]

I'll give that a try the next time I'm in the gym. I workout with a medicine ball but never thought about trying to palm it. I have small hands so stuff like that is difficult. I see if any of my new exercises have made me stronger in that area.

I've got just the thing for you.

These things are 5x5x5 inches. Awesome for training your hands. There's a reason the Greeks loved these.

https://www.amazon.com/Competition-Shot-Put-12-lbs/dp/B000A2ZTXG

 

[Alan0354]

This is what I do for my grip every week:
View attachment 29007View attachment 29008
Call the above Grip1, Grip2

View attachment 29009View attachment 29010

Call these Grip3 and Grip4.


I do these exercise ONE time a week mostly on Monday night when I am watching tv. I do 15reps for each set. The sequence of sets are:

3 X Grip1, 3 X Grip2, 3 X Grip1, 3 X Grip2, 3 X Grip3, 3 X Grip4, 3 X Grip3, 3 X Grip4. Total of 24 sets for each hand. Then I repeat the whole sequence again. That's it. Takes about 23 minutes.

This is pretty old school, no catching fish, no long bag, no belt cracking, no climbing.

I said it wrong. I do NOT repeat the whole sequence. I was just doing it and I realize that. There is no way to repeat it in 23minutes. Sorry.

I was wondering that's a lot of sets!!!

 

[JowGaWolf]

I've got just the thing for you.

These things are 5x5x5 inches. Awesome for training your hands. There's a reason the Greeks loved these.

https://www.amazon.com/Competition-Shot-Put-12-lbs/dp/B000A2ZTXG

View attachment 29011

I forgot all about those things. I tried to throw one when I was 14. Back then it was heavy, it should be a good fit now.

 

[JowGaWolf]

- modern time, people try to be strong first before they start to develop MA skill.

In general Most people probably just want to be fit and generally strong. They may not be building stronger muscles to serve any particular function. In the gym that I go to, they mostly build muscle to look good and they often pose and check out their muscles in the mirror. For me and some other guys it's different. You can tell that we are looking to be functional with the strength building exercises. I think it's only natural for people to be like that when strength for most people isn't necessary. Nothing I do in my professional life or daily responsibilities requires that I be physically strong in a way that requires me to spend 5 days out of the week in the gym. If I didn't do martial arts then I wouldn't have much need for the strength that I'm building now.

I don't have to fetch buckets and containers of water. I don't have to hunt for food or build and maintain my own shelter. I don't have to walk to work. Sometimes I barely have to get out of bed to work lol. If anything thing the U.S. probably needs more physical activity and functional strength lol.

 

[MetalBoar]

In general Most people probably just want to be fit and generally strong. They may not be building stronger muscles to serve any particular function. In the gym that I go to, they mostly build muscle to look good and they often pose and check out their muscles in the mirror. For me and some other guys it's different. You can tell that we are looking to be functional with the strength building exercises. I think it's only natural for people to be like that when strength for most people isn't necessary. Nothing I do in my professional life or daily responsibilities requires that I be physically strong in a way that requires me to spend 5 days out of the week in the gym. If I didn't do martial arts then I wouldn't have much need for the strength that I'm building now.

I don't have to fetch buckets and containers of water. I don't have to hunt for food or build and maintain my own shelter. I don't have to walk to work. Sometimes I barely have to get out of bed to work lol. If anything thing the U.S. probably needs more physical activity and functional strength lol.

I'm curious, what do you think makes someone functionally strong and how does that differ from being "generally strong"? What gives you insight into whether these other guys are developing functional strength or not? Are they not doing full body workouts? Just doing bicep curl until they've got a pump so they can look good for their Instagram post?

In my experience, functional strength = strong muscles + skill. It may be enhanced or diminished by those genetic aspects we were discussing earlier, so for instance, a guy with small hands may not have the functional grip strength of a guy with similar muscular development and larger hands that give him better leverage, but that's the sort of thing that's outside of our control.

For me, the gym is where I get the strong muscles part, MA class is where I add the skill development to manifest truly functional strength for MA. If I were to get into Scottish Highland Games, or strongman competitions, then I'd develop the skills that made my strength functional for those activities by learning how to do the Caber toss, or whatever, and then practicing, but I'd still do most of my muscular development in the gym.

 

[Alan0354]

I'm curious, what do you think makes someone functionally strong and how does that differ from being "generally strong"? What gives you insight into whether these other guys are developing functional strength or not? Are they not doing full body workouts? Just doing bicep curl until they've got a pump so they can look good for their Instagram post?

In my experience, functional strength = strong muscles + skill. It may be enhanced or diminished by those genetic aspects we were discussing earlier, so for instance, a guy with small hands may not have the functional grip strength of a guy with similar muscular development and larger hands that give him better leverage, but that's the sort of thing that's outside of our control.

For me, the gym is where I get the strong muscles part, MA class is where I add the skill development to manifest truly functional strength for MA. If I were to get into Scottish Highland Games, or strongman competitions, then I'd develop the skills that made my strength functional for those activities by learning how to do the Caber toss, or whatever, and then practicing, but I'd still do most of my muscular development in the gym.

Most moves on MA involve more than just one muscle, it's the whole group together. Like stick fight, yes grip strength is important............To the extend to hold onto the stick and strong enough wrist to keep up with the rest of the body. The power of the swing is from legs, waist and shoulder and even elbow. It's a whole body event. Grip is just part of it to the extend that don't be the weakest part of the link.

That doesn't require the endurance of climbing the rock. People have to put things into perspective.

I have to repeat this over and over. The fastest and easiest way to go from A to B is the straight line from A to B. Some like to take a little scenic route. Some enjoy the scenic so much they lost their way. Know where one wants to go, don't take the eye off the price.

 

[Jimmythebull]

Who remembers this great British athlete. He was all round. Sprints, Pole vault, hurdles & distance running.

 

[Jimmythebull]

The power of the swing is from legs, waist and shoulder and even elbow. It's a whole body event. Grip is just part of it to the extend that don't be the weakest part of the link.

watch how Emin strikes & talks about this...Pfoom..pfoom...

watch @ 8:40 how his body is behind it...power...

 

[Jimmythebull]

This is pretty old school, no catching fish, no long bag, no belt cracking, no climbing.

have you ever used these "captains of crush" grippers? my favourite exercise is simply EZ bar reverse curls. I also do them on a preacher bench, sometimes standing.

 

[Jimmythebull]

A vers simple routine i used in WT training was this ..

Close grip bench press (best with a parallel grip triceps bar)
Barbell squats
Incline sit ups.

was no lat work. They believed that it was negative to train lats & biceps, will compromise the power punching. Of course i don´t agree but it was the thinking then. The routine was good for close chain punches (WT), stable base, legs & midsection.

 

[Jimmythebull]

Now using the above workout I got stronger and faster with weights. Below is a book I bought years ago..it's nothing more than Isometrics & Isotonics. Nothing more.

 

[JowGaWolf]

I'm curious, what do you think makes someone functionally strong and how does that differ from being "generally strong"? What gives you insight into whether these other guys are developing functional strength or not? Are they not doing full body workouts? Just doing bicep curl until they've got a pump so they can look good for their Instagram post?

I talk to some of them. Some of them just sit around and chat with friends, others just sit and text on their phones. There are a some older guys and women who work out for health reasons and just trying to stay in shape. They aren't training for any specific sport or activity. Just trying to stay healthy. The younger guys and women care more about their looks. They end up posing and I can over hear their conversations about what they are trying to accomplish. Then you have people who go to the bag room who hit the bag. Most of the people who come into that room usually do stretches or train fighting skills.

I don't know about the morning crowd or the afternoon crowd because I train at night. Most of the people I see don't do full body workouts. Some only focus on cardio and will never touch the weights. Some will do the weights and never touch the cardio. There's a lady with a genetic defect there as well. My wife and I often help her to and from the door when she asks for help. I haven't seen her in a while now. I go to the gym 5 days a week unless injured and I've been doing this since January, so eventually I interact or watch people workout trying to see if there's an exercise that they do that I may want to adopt. Sometimes they adopt what I do, sometimes they don't. There's one guy that works out and he's always doing a live feed so I guess he's doing some youtube videos. He keeps to his self for the most part and everyone give him his space and tries not to get in the video shot.

Insight about others is easy. In the gym people gain it by. asking someone who knows. ask the person directly, or just watch what other people do. It's sort of like feeling someone out to see if they will make a good sparring partner before actually asking them to spar. What I state here is similar to how it was in the college gym more than 20 years ago.

Functionally strong to me is strength built for a specific purpose. For example, If I want to be able to bend down and pick up things better and not feel old when I do it, then my workout is designed to achieve that goal. If I want to be generally strong then my workout may or may not address that issue. Say. I may workout on my chest back arms, do some cardio, but not do anything that requires me to bend my knees and stoop down. I may not do static holds to help build up my tendons in my knees.

When I stay "functionally strong", I'm talking about the purpose and goal that a person has when trying to be strong. I typically ask what function are they trying to improve.

When I say "generally strong.," I'm talking about how there may not be any focus of function. Some people just want to be strong. or look strong. They aren't lifting weights to improve a function or to focus on one. Nice muscles and nice body is attractive to men and women. I used to walk and do bicep curls with weights. I wasn't do this to be functionally strong. I just wanted to do an exercise to help manage my blood pressure and give the arms a decent workout in the process. I wasn't trying to improve a function of strength. I was just trying to improve my health.

There used to be a guy who was doing some kind of social media post because he was always asking someone to hold his phone and take video of him as he stand holding a dumbbell. That guy was strange. He made a lot of people uncomfortable. He kind of just went up to people and started conversations with them as if we were already talking about what was going on in his mind.

 

[JowGaWolf]

The fastest and easiest way to go from A to B is the straight line from A to B.

This may be true but it may not always be the best way. Sometimes those side trips along the way help improve what you are trying to accomplish. There may be some understanding or extra information that helps your development. Sometimes getting to Point B doesn't need to be fast nor easy.

 

[Jimmythebull]

This has turned into a great thread ..i am enjoying it immensly

 

[Oily Dragon]

I forgot all about those things. I tried to throw one when I was 14. Back then it was heavy, it should be a good fit now.

There's a technique to it, technically you're not supposed to try throwing the shot with your arm, but with your body. Hence "putting", why the shot is placed on the neck, etc.

Honestly dude, this is one of my favorite sports and these guys have to train like beasts. But it's a lot of fun too.

People talk about "energy" and "kinetic chains" in the MA, but this really sums it up nicely. Wow, to be that big AND spin like a ballerina.

Just ordered myself a new set. If you actually put with them they can get a little gross over time. I prefer the cast iron ones, better grip IMHO.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Just ordered myself a new set. If you actually put with them they can get a little gross over time. I prefer the cast iron ones, better grip IMHO.

I was checking these out last night. I'll plan to order one in the next couple of days, may be two so I can have one of a different weight.

 

[Alan0354]

watch how Emin strikes & talks about this...Pfoom..pfoom...

watch @ 8:40 how his body is behind it...power...

This video talk a lot about my issue with fighting against knife and all that. I am practicing knife, People here and a lot of video talked about grappling with knives, I thought it's crazy with all the fancy moves like at the beginning of the video. There's even a thread here on knife forum that said IF you are good, you won't get cut fighting against people with knife!!!

What kind of dream is that. That's what I am so tired of people talking when they are sitting on their comfy chair. Then talk about all the grappling against knife. I like the guy in the video say DO NOT grapple with knife at the very beginning, you'll get cut!!!! Push it away from body!!!

Then at the part he talked about stick that you don't commit and swing all the way. A lot of the stick fight just swing wild like what he said not to. Actually I move to swinging with two hands. I put a lot of effort to pull back the stick after hitting exactly like what he showed. Don't swing it all the way like swinging a baseball bet. Recovery is slow if you swing all the way.

You really have to stop and think before blindly learn in MA. There are too many stupid things mixed into those styles, do NOT trust blindly, have to think and question.

Don't think it's funny I kept talking about catching with hands, you see a few videos here that is NOT far off from that. AND that's NOT FUNNY.