Tell me about Feng Zhiqiang and Hunyuan Taijiquan

[Xue Sheng]

I know who Feng Zhiqiang is and I know his Hunyuan Taiji isheavily influenced by the Chen Taijiquan of his Chen teacher Chen Fake and I know the Chen family thinks pretty highly of him but I recently found out thatthere are different versions that do not all have the same focus and it alldepends on who you learned it from and when.

Here’s the thing, I have no idea what that last bit means because I have so little exposure to Hunyuan. Until recently, even though I did and do feel Feng is very good at Taiji and quite talented it is just that I never took Huyuan very seriously.

I know that in Beijing there are at least 4 people teaching this (listed on Feng’s website) Feng Xiuqian (Feng Zhiqiang daughter), Chen Huiying, Chen Xiang, and Zhang Yufei. But I am getting the impression they don't all teach the same thing and that they may be rather different.

Anybody have any insigt to this and do any of them teach the martial side of Taijiquan that is assuming Huyuan has one.

I mean no disrespect to Feng Zhiqiang or Huyuan Taijiquan it is just that I know that little about it

 

[clfsean]

He also practiced Liu He Quan & Xingyi I think... or it could've been Xin Yi Liu He Quan. Not sure about which way that happened.

I never got into the Hunyuan stuff in my taiji class. We did pretty much just the Xin Jia from Chen Fa ke/Hong Jun Sheng. We would do some of the circling exercises to warm up, but then on to Chen, so I got bupkus on the HY.

 

[Xue Sheng]

He also practiced Liu He Quan & Xingyi I think... or it could've been Xin Yi Liu He Quan. Not sure about which way that happened.

I never got into the Hunyuan stuff in my taiji class. We did pretty much just the Xin Jia from Chen Fa ke/Hong Jun Sheng. We would do some of the circling exercises to warm up, but then on to Chen, so I got bupkus on the HY.

Yeah...thanks for that...devil talker.... real helpful :uhyeah:

Thanks, I always thought what he taught was a modified Chen, heavy on Qigong, I did not know he had made his own style until yesterday. And yesterday it looked real interesting, this morning it looked real interesting, right now it just looks like another Taijiquan that is heavily influenced by Chen style

 

[clfsean]

Yeah...thanks for that...devil talker.... real helpful :uhyeah:

We do what we can. We try to take things slow & easy so not to confuse you sissy lispers.

Thanks, I always thought what he taught was a modified Chen, heavy on Qigong, I did not know he had made his own style until yesterday. And yesterday it looked real interesting, this morning it looked real interesting, right now it just looks like another Taijiquan that is heavily influenced by Chen style

The Hunyuan stuff is a heavy Qigong taiji then there's the Chen from CFK/HJS. From what I've gleaned in China, the focus is more towards the HY stuff in Feng's school than the Chen.

 

[Flying Crane]

My first sifu does it, I tried for a number of years but finally came to the conclusion that I just don't get Taiji. That came about the time I began studying with my current Sifu (my former Sigung) in White Crane, and I just never looked back.

Sorry, I just can't tell you much about it other than it's Chen in origin, but he went in his own direction. People speak very highly of him. But Taiji just didn't make much sense to me, I don't get what's supposed to be going on.

 

[Xue Sheng]

My first sifu does it, I tried for a number of years but finally came to the conclusion that I just don't get Taiji. That came about the time I began studying with my current Sifu (my former Sigung) in White Crane, and I just never looked back.

Sorry, I just can't tell you much about it other than it's Chen in origin, but he went in his own direction. People speak very highly of him. But Taiji just didn't make much sense to me, I don't get what's supposed to be going on.

Don't feel bad, 17 years with the same taiji sifu and I got hit with the "I just don't get what is supposed to be going on" during tuishou with a newer student that came from TKD/Karate. If you had asked me before that I would have likely tried to explain what was going on becuse I was pretty sure I knew. 13 posures I get, applications I get...the rest just went out the window that night.

I have watched Feng's videos of his form and I am not exactly sure what is going on either but I see the vids of his applications and I get that. I was watching his free videos on his sight and in his silk reeling I found myself thinking....why not just do the Chen silk reeling I was taught...why would I want to go learn this too. And I am now feeling the same way about his taiji forms too. Why go off and learn this, I have enough taiji forms already and some of those are Chen, I did not feel this way when I started this thread though, I was rather interested then.

 

[Xue Sheng]

We do what we can. We try to take things slow & easy so not to confuse you sissy lispers.

Oh wait I forgot to say that so a devil talker could understand...yeah that was helpfulaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

The Hunyuan stuff is a heavy Qigong taiji then there's the Chen from CFK/HJS. From what I've gleaned in China, the focus is more towards the HY stuff in Feng's school than the Chen.

Yeah I am seeing a real emphisis of the Qigong bits

 

[oaktree]

His Xingyi I think his line comes from Shanxi:
http://www.chinafrominside.com/ma/taiji/FZQinterview.html

I think he also mixes his Xingyiquan with Chen Taijiquan so thats pretty cool.

http://www.hunyuantaiji.com.cn/en/classonlineen/newneigong.asp
You can learn alot of his stuff online pretty cool I think.
Maybe each teacher does focus on different things maybe his daughters focus more on form and Qigong and other people focus more on teaching application.
You can see his daughters on Youtube.
I would think it is very martial as he did study quite alot of Martial arts with some popular people and he like to fight as what articles concerning him say.
He also wrote a book in Chinese on Chen Taijiquan. You can download his book on verycd, but alot of his stuff is on his website for free so I guess you can learn it there and get something out of it. I myself will take a look could be some interesting things to discuss with my teacher.

 

[Flying Crane]

Don't feel bad, 17 years with the same taiji sifu and I got hit with the "I just don't get what is supposed to be going on" during tuishou with a newer student that came from TKD/Karate. If you had asked me before that I would have likely tried to explain what was going on becuse I was pretty sure I knew. 13 posures I get, applications I get...the rest just went out the window that night.

I have watched Feng's videos of his form and I am not exactly sure what is going on either but I see the vids of his applications and I get that. I was watching his free videos on his sight and in his silk reeling I found myself thinking....why not just do the Chen silk reeling I was taught...why would I want to go learn this too. And I am now feeling the same way about his taiji forms too. Why go off and learn this, I have enough taiji forms already and some of those are Chen, I did not feel this way when I started this thread though, I was rather interested then.

yeah, I'm a real believer in sticking with one thing when it actually makes sense to you. I honestly couldn't justify to myself spending time with taiji, kenpo, shaolin and the other random stuff I had learned, once I began to really "get" the white crane. It just no longer made sense to do so, because to me, white crane made so much sense. I've got way too much good stuff to work on, to waste time collecting other things.

 

[blindsage]

My understanding is similar to oaktree's, I've heard that Hunyuan is a blend of Chen and Xingyi. There's a guy out here that is a peer of my sifu that is supposed to be one of Feng's official U.S. representatives, this is from his 'about' page explaining Hunyuan.

"Chen-style Xinyi Hunyuan TaijiquanThe hallmarks of Chen Style Taijiquan are variation in speed, alternating soft and explosive movements, and a kind of spiraling movement known as Chansi jin (silk reeling energy). Emphasizing lower stances and a more energetic performance, Chen Style has forms suited for both beginning and advanced practitioners.
The Chen-style Xinyi Hunyuan Taijiquan system 陳式心意混元太極拳 (abbrev. Hunyuan Taiji) was developed by grandmaster Feng Zhiqiang 馮志強 and integrates Taoist internal training, qigong, Chen-style Taijiquan, and Xinyi quan (mind-intent boxing) into a comprehensive system. The Hunyuan Taiji system 混元太極 is set apart from other systems of Taiji by its emphases on nourishing the body and the use of mind-intent as fundamental to successful practice. It is both extremely practical and rooted in spiritual insight."

 

[Xue Sheng]

Xinyi or Xingyi? They are not the same.

as I research this I am getting the impression that it is much more concerned about heath than martial arts, woudl that be yuor take on this as well?

 

[Flying Crane]

Xinyi or Xingyi? They are not the same.

as I research this I am getting the impression that it is much more concerned about heath than martial arts, woudl that be yuor take on this as well?

I believe that Feng and his top students can definitely fight. For most, I believe it's really about health and exercise.

Who are his top students? I don't believe it's most of the people who are Stateside and didn't spend significant time working directly with him. I believe there are a lot of people who have travelled to China and spent "some" time with him. But if it wasn't ongoing for years, then no, they just had seminars and that doesn't give one solid training.

 

[oaktree]

Xue,
Feng studied under Hu Yaozhen who line is from Hebei Xingyiquan.
http://www.chinafrominside.com/ma/taiji/FZQinterview.html

I am sure there is alot of martial application after all it does come from Xingyiquan and Chen Taijiquan.
You might have to put emphasis on that when you learn it with a teacher.

 

[Randy Strausbaugh]

My instructor used to study Hunyuan Taijiquan with two instructors of the method in Columbus, but they switched to the Chen Qingjiao lineage. From what he told me, the silk reeling and fa jin which exists in Chen Fake's form is more obvious in the Hunyuan form. He also said that Hunyuan was heavy into applications and qigong, with at least two methods of qigong used. One is an upright standing form which consists of 12 sections (it's available on tape). The other (known as Hybrid Hunyuan Qigong) uses deep stances and training of the kua along with qi development. That's the one my instructor taught me (have not found a video yet). Doing it, it's easy to see the relevance to the form.
Sorry I don't have more, hope this helps.

 

[Randy Strausbaugh]

Feng Zhiqiang also wrote a book on Chen style 38 form and applications, as well as a book on Taiji ruler and short stick qigong. Hard to find, but they're out there.

 

[blindsage]

Xinyi or Xingyi? They are not the same.

Most of the time, not always. My teacher teaches Xingyi, but he says his teacher liked to call it Xinyi even though it is obviously what we generally call Xingyi, and not what is generally called Xinyi.

as I research this I am getting the impression that it is much more concerned about heath than martial arts, woudl that be yuor take on this as well?

No, not necessarily, but many may approach it solely this way, just like much of the rest of Taiji.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Feng Zhiqiang also wrote a book on Chen style 38 form and applications, as well as a book on Taiji ruler and short stick qigong. Hard to find, but they're out there.

I have the Chen 38 book written by Feng Zhiqiang and you are right, it was hard to find, even back when I was looking for it and found it.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Most of the time, not always. My teacher teaches Xingyi, but he says his teacher liked to call it Xinyi even though it is obviously what we generally call Xingyi, and not what is generally called Xinyi.

My taiji sifu calls it Yingyi....southern dialect....what can I say

No, not necessarily, but many may approach it solely this way, just like much of the rest of Taiji.

Thanks... and yes I know....many approach taiji in that way and it is really getting on my nerves lately... and what is surprising me is that this is nothing new

 

[blindsage]

My taiji sifu calls it Yingyi....southern dialect....what can I say

Apparently Tchoung (my teacher's teacher) just prefered the meaning of Xinyi over Xingyi from what I understand.