Taijiquan Training Question

[East Winds]

marlon,

Yes. Traditional Yang has many applications for dealing with punches to the head. One of the classic ones and one that is easiest to apply is "Fan through Back". It deals with a right handed punch. Step to the left, right hand contacts opponents hand or wrist, leaving the left hand to counter attack. Dealing with a left handed punch you can use "Step up Defelect Parry Punch". There are of course many, many more.

Incidentally, Xue Sheng decided to close his account. A great loss to this board.

Very best wishes

 

[pete]

east winds,

we go through progression of grab-push-punch in training applications, taking one from easiest to most difficult to maintain tai chi principles and defend effectively.

with the grab or hold he is already attached, so you just have to maintain the connection.

with a push, he is in process of becoming attached and is less likley to immediately retract (think pushing through or shoving), so you have to yield to connect, then maintain.

with a punch, strike, or kick, he has no intention of attaching to you. he wants to tag you, then retract. so for strikes, you have to position yourself, yield, then FORM a connection to attached and stick to.

you can go through any posture and apply to each scenario. unfortunately, many dont make it past grab or lose tai chi principles when dealing with strikes. i am curious if you have similar methods in your style, or if you typically utilize specific posture/applications for grabs, others for pushes, and others for strikes.

btw, do not share same opinion of our recently departed 'friend.' i see it more as addition-by-subtraction, or in Taoist terms removal of the non-essential...

pete

 

[NanFeiShen]

does Yang taiji have applications mainly against pushes and grabs? Someone was showing me applications and none of them dealt with a punch to the head straight or hook.

Respectfully,
marlon

Straight Punches :
Play the lute
Step up and raise Hands
White Crane Spreads its wings
Kick With left or right Heel
Fist Under Elbow

Hook Punches:
Fair Lady
Fan through Back

 

[East Winds]

pete,

I would not disagree with what you have written. I think it is a bad idea to have fixed applications for fixed situations. Taijiquan need flexibility in its approach to dealing with offensive attacks. You use the application that is appropriate for the occasion. If your mindset says "I must use a particular posture to deal with a particular incoming attack" then you are in trouble!!!! The beauty of Traditional Yang is that each posture can be used in a variety of ways. Much like I posted on the sword forum, we practice using 2, 3, 4 and 5 man drills for applications. At its most active, you do not know which sort of attack you are going to be presented with as you turn to each opponent in turn. The object is to use one of the Taiji postures applying Taiji principles to each attack. It certainly keeps you on your toes and if possible you should have an observer to comment on your performance. The key is using the applications as you would in the form only at normal speed. Another practise we use to train taiji principles is free style push hands i.e. more or less grappling with either fixed step or free step movement. Again the key must be the 12 essences.

Very best wishes

Very best wishes

 

[marlon]

12 essesces?

marlon

 

[grydth]

pete,

I would not disagree with what you have written. I think it is a bad idea to have fixed applications for fixed situations. Taijiquan need flexibility in its approach to dealing with offensive attacks. You use the application that is appropriate for the occasion. If your mindset says "I must use a particular posture to deal with a particular incoming attack" then you are in trouble!!!! The beauty of Traditional Yang is that each posture can be used in a variety of ways. Much like I posted on the sword forum, we practice using 2, 3, 4 and 5 man drills for applications. At its most active, you do not know which sort of attack you are going to be presented with as you turn to each opponent in turn. The object is to use one of the Taiji postures applying Taiji principles to each attack. It certainly keeps you on your toes and if possible you should have an observer to comment on your performance. The key is using the applications as you would in the form only at normal speed. Another practise we use to train taiji principles is free style push hands i.e. more or less grappling with either fixed step or free step movement. Again the key must be the 12 essences.

Very best wishes

Very best wishes

This sounds like a terrific class. Your point about not having only 1 fixed response to a particular threat is sound across all MA... once you become predictable, the next stop is extinction.

 

[East Winds]

marlon,

Sorry, of course I meant the 10 essences left to us by Yang Cheng-fu.

http://www.uswushuacademy.com/articles/10essences.htm

Here is an excellent explanation of them from Coach Christopher Pei.

Vey best wishes

 

[marlon]

btw my brother in law just came back from China at a competition / seminar with Yang Jun. He loved it. He pushed hands with Yang Jun and said he felt like such a pro because Yang Jun was sticking to him so effortlessly! He has decided to give up choi li fut and focus on Taiji exclusively. He also noted that Yang Jun is very martially focused in his teachings

respectfully,
Marlon

 

[marlon]

i am being corrected in the form. There is a traditional hand position inbtwn the brush knee postures where the hand that brushed is palm up fingers straight and pointed at the mid forearm of the other hand. first how does the waist direct this movement and second what is the application?
Any answers would be appreciated. I learned the form from FU sources and they do not seem to do it. But apparently Yang Jun teaches it

Respectfully,
Marlon

 

[East Winds]

marlon,

I assume you mean that after the hand (lets say the left hand) has brushed it finishes at the side palm down. It then turns palm up as the waist turns to the left and the fingers drive upwards to commence the next brush. The turning palm up and drive upwards is to break a wrist grasp. Try it with a partner. Get him to grasp your wrist then turn your palm and drive upwards with the fingers to see the effect. (The brushing palm always stays palm down). I'm not sure at what stage it points at the opposing forearm though??
:shrug:
Hope this helps

Very best wishes

 

[marlon]

marlon,

I assume you mean that after the hand (lets say the left hand) has brushed it finishes at the side palm down. It then turns palm up as the waist turns to the left and the fingers drive upwards to commence the next brush. The turning palm up and drive upwards is to break a wrist grasp. Try it with a partner. Get him to grasp your wrist then turn your palm and drive upwards with the fingers to see the effect. (The brushing palm always stays palm down). I'm not sure at what stage it points at the opposing forearm though??
:shrug:
Hope this helps

Very best wishes

This type of application i am very familiar with Kempo has over kill in the application dept. from multiple situations, so i can see many applications to movements as it is part of the core of my SK training. With taiji i am more intersted in the how of taiji skill and moving energy as a focus in terms of application. However, for the movement in question i have been corrected to have the brushing left hand rotate and point to the right forearmbut my waist is turning left!! Anywho maybe i misunderstood.
respectfully,
marlon

 

[East Winds]

marlon,

As you know, the Brushing Hand is to deal with a punch to the head or a kick or a knee to the groin. Turning the palm upwards would therefore weaken the application. Energy of course comes from the waist and is transmitted into the hands therefore if the waist and hands are going in different directions then you have a flaw in your form.

Keep up the practise

Very best wishes

 

[marlon]

thank you. as you transit btwn left and right brush knee posturs do you shift your wirght to the back leg first?

marlon

 

[East Winds]

marlon,

Yes. But only some of your weight. You need to do this in order to reposition the left foot to 45 degrees.

Very best wishes

 

[marlon]

when you do the brush knee the power comes from the back leg? Does the power from the push comes from the front?

Respectfully,
Marlon

 

[marlon]

can someone explain the differences between jin and qi, to me?

Thank you


marlon

 

[Xue Sheng]

Jin is a Chinese rapper and Qi is the Taiwanese movie star that was in The Transporter :uhyeah:

Qi = physical life force. Strong Qi you are healthy weak qi you are sick no qi you are dead

Jin = power

nei jin = internal power

 

[marlon]

many thanks...chinese rap is cool!!

 

[marlon]

is there a significance to the way he is forming his hand througout the form? are there any good examples of "stopping without stopping" on youtube?
thanks

Respectfully,
Marlon

 

[Xue Sheng]

are there any good examples of "stopping without stopping" on youtube?
thanks

Respectfully,
Marlon

Tung Ying Jie, Tung Hu Ling, Fu Shengyuan