Teaching beginners lots of moves

[Touch Of Death]

What makes you think the idea is to have 10000 techniques to choose from? It's not actually a good idea to have a big selection because you obviously haven't heard the story of the fox and the hounds. A fox and a cat are sitting chatting, they hear the hounds baying in the distance. The fox tells the cat he has hundreds of ways to outwit the hounds, the cat says she only has one, that's to run up a tree which she does as they hear the hounds come closer, the fox sits there considering which of his hundreds of ways to use, he sits there so long thinking of the many ways that he doesn't actually use any because the hounds are on him and he's ripped to pieces. So no, 10000 techniques is not useful, pick one, practice, practice and practice.

Well, you can cut your self off from 66.33333% of them, by simply using the ones available for the position you are in, at that moment.

 

[Tez3]

Well, you can cut your self off from 66.33333% of them, by simply using the ones available for the position you are in, at that moment.

If you know which ones are available that is, that you aren't confused and out of practise because you know so many techniques that you can only practice each one once a year.

 

[Paul_D]

I agree, but the idea is to know 10000 techniques so than you can pick from them which one works best for you and which one to practice 10000 times. Its good to have a big selection to pick from.

Actually the idea should be to internalise the principals on which the techniques are based so you can apply them when needed. Techniques have a finite use, and are essentially nothing more than physical manifestations of the principals. Principals on the other hand have an almost infinite number of applications.

 

[Andrew Green]

I agree, but the idea is to know 10000 techniques so than you can pick from them which one works best for you and which one to practice 10000 times. Its good to have a big selection to pick from.

Beginners don't need that. It makes little sense in any context.

Some things are needed by everyone. If you do kickboxing you'll need a jab, you'll need a cross and a half dozen other core techniques before you can really do much. You don't need 20 different types of kicks. You get the basics and then build on top of it with the less used stuff as it suits you. You don't need a ax kick, could it help? Sure, but you don't need it. You do need a jab, and a few other things.

It's like building a tool box. Start with a couple screw drivers, adjustable wrench, maybe a hammer and a hand saw. The stuff you'll need the most and that does the most basic things.

Different coaches might have slightly different takes on what those fundamentals are, but they are going to be pretty similar within a given ruleset or context under most coaches. If you are taking Muay Thai and are learning spin kicks before jabs... somethings not right.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

What makes you think the idea is to have 10000 techniques to choose from? It's not actually a good idea to have a big selection because you obviously haven't heard the story of the fox and the hounds. A fox and a cat are sitting chatting, they hear the hounds baying in the distance. The fox tells the cat he has hundreds of ways to outwit the hounds, the cat says she only has one, that's to run up a tree which she does as they hear the hounds come closer, the fox sits there considering which of his hundreds of ways to use, he sits there so long thinking of the many ways that he doesn't actually use any because the hounds are on him and he's ripped to pieces. So no, 10000 techniques is not useful, pick one, practice, practice and practice.

True enough, so long as the one technique is always appropriate.

 

[Hyoho]

Sounds like a lot are people are still having to think too much when they fight. No two situations will ever be the same. Adaptability of just one technique is fine "if" you understand timing/interval.

 

[PhotonGuy]

What makes you think the idea is to have 10000 techniques to choose from? It's not actually a good idea to have a big selection because you obviously haven't heard the story of the fox and the hounds. A fox and a cat are sitting chatting, they hear the hounds baying in the distance. The fox tells the cat he has hundreds of ways to outwit the hounds, the cat says she only has one, that's to run up a tree which she does as they hear the hounds come closer, the fox sits there considering which of his hundreds of ways to use, he sits there so long thinking of the many ways that he doesn't actually use any because the hounds are on him and he's ripped to pieces. So no, 10000 techniques is not useful, pick one, practice, practice and practice.

Lets say I know 10000 techniques, I pick one or two of them, and I practice, practice, practice with just those one or two moves. Of course 10000 techniques is an exaggeration. The point is I've got a big selection to choose from. As for the fox, perhaps he should've picked one of his hundreds of ways beforehand and planned to use that one way in such emergencies.

 

[JR 137]

There's good a reason why every syllabus I've seen has far fewer techniques at white belt than any other rank.

Learn how to stand, move, make a fist, throw a punch, a kick or two, and how to avoid those things. Then do more advanced stuff once you've got those down.

 

[Tez3]

Lets say I know 10000 techniques, I pick one or two of them, and I practice, practice, practice with just those one or two moves. Of course 10000 techniques is an exaggeration. The point is I've got a big selection to choose from. As for the fox, perhaps he should've picked one of his hundreds of ways beforehand and planned to use that one way in such emergencies.

If the fox does that he's going back to the original premise of practising one technique thousands of times. that is a simplification but certainly beginners do not need hundreds of techniques and the more experienced don't need thousands, just ones they know very well and can be adapted for any situation.

 

[eddiecharette]

My grandson has started of his training classes. From what he shared with me, they had a slow start.
he keeps checking online for improving his moves and is very passionate. He likes viewing youtube like this cute video

 

[Buka]

I don't think it's an either or question. It's dependent on the dojo, the Art, how said dojo is run, how the classes are set up, the teachers, the frequency and availability of classes for the students, whether it's a fighting dojo, or a training dojo, the pedagogical talent and attitude of teachers, and of the students, too....and a whole lot of other factors.

Think about ALL the students you've know throughout the years. They don't learn the same way, at the same pace, in the same comfort, and some learn some things better than other things, and other things less than some things. (really clunky sentence)

Throw them in the water for five years (hey, the OP said "beginners") - see what shakes out. Less than five years are just hobbyists anyway. (yes, I realize this is not sound business advice)

I always had a beginners class - and the regular class. Once you had some idea (even if it was minimal) of our basics - stance, hands up always, movement, basic punches and kicks, blocks, parries, counters, position and base on the ground, etc, you got to go to the regular class. Sometimes this was your decision, sometimes we guided you when you were stalling.

The people in the regular class didn't look at you like new meat, they adopted you, they helped you, they took you under their wing. That's just the way it was.

It's all different in all schools, and in all Arts, and it pretty much works out whatever way you do it.
Most times, anyway.

 

[Hyoho]

My grandson has started of his training classes. From what he shared with me, they had a slow start.
he keeps checking online for improving his moves and is very passionate. He likes viewing youtube like this cute video

All Japanese children are like that regardless of MA. Even Yochien (Kindergarden) has a strict regimen of teaching small kids to memorise complicated actions. But for sure they are sweet kids.

 

[PhotonGuy]

If the fox does that he's going back to the original premise of practising one technique thousands of times. that is a simplification but certainly beginners do not need hundreds of techniques and the more experienced don't need thousands, just ones they know very well and can be adapted for any situation.

Thats the idea, to practice one or two moves thousands of times but to have a big pot to choose from.

 

[Xue Sheng]

I fear not the man who has practiced 10,000 kicks once, but I fear the man who has practiced one kick 10,000 times. - Bruce Lee

Teaching beginners many things does not give them a lot to chose from, it gives them a lot to get confused about, do wrong and then forget.

 

[JR 137]

I fear not the man who has practiced 10,000 kicks once, but I fear the man who has practiced one kick 10,000 times. - Bruce Lee

Teaching beginners many things does not give them a lot to chose from, it gives them a lot to get confused about, do wrong and then forget.

Or lots of new ways to mess something up and get KOed because of it.

 

[PhotonGuy]

As discussed before 10,000 techniques is an exaggeration but lets put it this way. Lets say as a white belt you're taught the front kick, side kick, round kick, back kick, reverse punch, jab punch, palm strike, and shuto strike. That's eight different techniques, a rather large selection. Than as a yellow belt, the next belt up, you're taught the crescent kick, foot sweep, knee kick, elbow strike, ridge hand, and finger strike, which brings the total techniques in your arsenal up to 14. Now, lets say out of all those techniques you choose to primarily focus on the front kick and the reverse punch. So you practice the front kick and the reverse punch both 10,000 times and you keep training primarily in those two techniques throughout your entire martial arts career. If you were to do so you would become extremely effective with the front kick and reverse punch and you wouldn't need much more. So while I believe its a good idea to focus on just a few techniques and to bring them to a level where you've mastered them and to get them as good as you possibly can, I also think its a good idea to know or at least be familiar with many different techniques. That way you will have a big pot to choose from and you will also be better at defending against such techniques.

 

[Touch Of Death]

As discussed before 10,000 techniques is an exaggeration but lets put it this way. Lets say as a white belt you're taught the front kick, side kick, round kick, back kick, reverse punch, jab punch, palm strike, and shuto strike. That's eight different techniques, a rather large selection. Than as a yellow belt, the next belt up, you're taught the crescent kick, foot sweep, knee kick, elbow strike, ridge hand, and finger strike, which brings the total techniques in your arsenal up to 14. Now, lets say out of all those techniques you choose to primarily focus on the front kick and the reverse punch. So you practice the front kick and the reverse punch both 10,000 times and you keep training primarily in those two techniques throughout your entire martial arts career. If you were to do so you would become extremely effective with the front kick and reverse punch and you wouldn't need much more. So while I believe its a good idea to focus on just a few techniques and to bring them to a level where you've mastered them and to get them as good as you possibly can, I also think its a good idea to know or at least be familiar with many different techniques. That way you will have a big pot to choose from and you will also be better at defending against such techniques.

But if you just show them, and work with them on the idea, the number of techniques rise quite drastically if you show them that the different techs are just points on a circle. So, you just teach the student where to place their hands (usually either side of the face), and offer them different targets, and they will know enough to shape their hand for the strike, ie back knuckles, eye whip, hammer fist, grabs, elbows, tiger claws, pokes, and plucking or pulling, on the return motion. This can be taught rather quickly, given, the circle never changes, just the point, on that circle.

 

[Flying Crane]

As discussed before 10,000 techniques is an exaggeration but lets put it this way. Lets say as a white belt you're taught the front kick, side kick, round kick, back kick, reverse punch, jab punch, palm strike, and shuto strike. That's eight different techniques, a rather large selection. Than as a yellow belt, the next belt up, you're taught the crescent kick, foot sweep, knee kick, elbow strike, ridge hand, and finger strike, which brings the total techniques in your arsenal up to 14. Now, lets say out of all those techniques you choose to primarily focus on the front kick and the reverse punch. So you practice the front kick and the reverse punch both 10,000 times and you keep training primarily in those two techniques throughout your entire martial arts career. If you were to do so you would become extremely effective with the front kick and reverse punch and you wouldn't need much more. So while I believe its a good idea to focus on just a few techniques and to bring them to a level where you've mastered them and to get them as good as you possibly can, I also think its a good idea to know or at least be familiar with many different techniques. That way you will have a big pot to choose from and you will also be better at defending against such techniques.

Except that you won't do that. Like most people, you will get caught up in doing what will get you your next promotion. You will not focus on those couple. You will spread yourself out trying to do it all, because you want a promotion too.

That's human nature. Most people lack the self-awareness and the self-control. Better to not show them yet.

 

[Flying Crane]

Less is more, usually.

 

[PhotonGuy]

Except that you won't do that. Like most people, you will get caught up in doing what will get you your next promotion. You will not focus on those couple. You will spread yourself out trying to do it all, because you want a promotion too.

That's human nature. Most people lack the self-awareness and the self-control. Better to not show them yet.

Well that depends on what's required for promotion. Lets say that for promotion an instructor requires a student to have basic knowledge of all the techniques he's been taught but in addition to that the instructor requires the student to perform one kick and one hand strike of the student's choice to a much higher standard than the other techniques.