Robert:
you said you were responding to me...but there seems to be some myths you are attacking that I am not sure is aimed directly at me.
Anyway, I've got an hour or so before my next meeting, my boss is out today, so I'll give it a whirl...
...the Tip, "did some damage," to anybody's reputation.
it's just a Tip. It's not meant to be the be-all and end-all
I agree here. It is just a tip. Not a be-all and end-all. From a Kenpo-centric experience, it is just a tip from a very knowledgeable Kenpo instructor who is doing lots of good things with weekly tips on Kenpo principles and techniques. Most of the responses on the other forums were from people with a different experience. From the MMA/BJJ centric viewpoint, there are lots of video tips out there. There are websites devoted to video tips (
www.subfighter.com). There is an industry of instructional videos because there are well over a thousand possible techniques in grappling/mma (not just 250 or 600). Every BJJ/MMA student has seen video examples of mount escapes. When they compare that particular TOW to their experience...well, you've read the reactions...
1. "We are more realistic than you are." ..."What's more realistic--avoiding fighting, or charging in?"
Robert, I think you are trying to make several points here...
If I may try and summarize and respond to each.
A) Grapplers are not the norm in street fighting. I agree with this. Very few of the fights I've seen involve trained grapplers. I do recall one fight at my high school in 1977 or 78 where a wrestling jock pinned a Golden Gloves champion on the ground and the boxer couldn't get up. There have been a few other fights I've seen go to the ground, but none involved trained grapplers since that one. But, grappling is now fashionable and more people are training. In the 1970's, it was uncommon to get kicked in a streetfight. Now it is common. It is not common to face a grappler now, but 10 years from now I bet it will be a lot more common.
B) Grappling on the ground is bad in street fighting. I agree here also. But, that guy on the ground you saw getting kicked...how did he get there? Did someone do a takedown on him? Did he know how to get up? Could it be that the guy on the ground didn't know how to grapple and the guy that put him there did? Now he can't get up because he's pinned and the grappler's friends are stomping on him. Goes both ways here. Don't want to fight alone on the ground against multiple standing attackers. Also, if I did get into a fight, I would prefer to knock somebody down and have my friends stomp on him for me.
C) Bad guys are NOT everywhere. I agree here also. How did this even enter the argument? Martial Arts study is somewhat Hobbesian: we do try and prepare for the worst. I am not a Hobbesian. If I was, I would study Glock Fu instead of arts like Kenpo and Jiu Jitsu where we train in a friendly and cooperative environment.
D) It is better to avoid fighting than to fight. I agree here also. Like you, I haven't been in a fight in a long time...only 2 since I got out of high school in 1979. But, as I said above, we train for the worst. That is the fun and challenge of Martial Arts study.
2. "Kenpo is just fashionable."
Here too, I think you are making multiple points
A) BJJ instructors have egos, seek fame & fortune. I couldn't agree more. But, BJJ instructors seem willing to step onto the mat, into the ring, into the cage, or on the street in order to back up their claims. Many BJJ instructors compete in Vale Tudo, MMA, challenge matches, etc. where they test their skill against boxers, kick-boxers, karate people, wrestlers, Judokas, brawlers, etc. A few Kenpoists do this as well. I do sense however that you disapprove of this practice and prefer an art and training environment where the art's and the instructor's effectiveness is never challenged.
B) Not all BJJ instructors are good. I agree here also. BJJ tournaments, Submission Grappling tournaments, and MMA events go a long way toward differentiating good instructors from bad. Too bad Kenpo and Karate belt promotions and tournaments are not structured in a way that enables Kenpoists to fairly test their skills.
3. "Kenpo people are all tied up with their own egos."
I believe your point is that everyone has egos and that other arts have lots of puffy heads as well. No argument here. I am in complete agreement. Kenpo people generally have much better control of their egos and temper than many other martial artists. And a lot better control than the typical BJJ/MMA person.
4. "Kenpo people never listen to anybody else, because they're blind."
I thinkyour point here was that the MMA internet forums are filled with a bunch of arrogant young homophobes. I think there is much truth in that.
5. "Kenpo people don't understand true Combat."
I think your point is that many of the arrogant young homophobes on the MMA forums are rude. I agree.
6. "Kenpo people don't know anything about {insert favorite here}."
The point the BJJ/MMA people are rudely trying to make is that they don't do techniques simply to demonstrate a principle and that they discard techniques that nobody can make work or where the attack is unrealistic. And that is the heart of the criticism of the Mount TOW.
We are not (with very rare exceptions) seasoned warriors, or professional fighters, or martial arts geniuses. Relax a little on the proselytizing. At least consider the other guy's viewpoint. Remember that disagreement is not evil. Develop a few basic manners. Take a look in the mirror occasionally. Accept that it's just writing on a forum.
Good advice.
Oh, and for the inevitable, "You never do any of these things, you hypocrite," poster, boy, are you ever wrong. Do I screw up from time to time? Sure. How 'bout yourself?
Yeah, I screw up all the time. My boss thinks I don't do anything at work, my wife thinks I spend too much time on Martial Arts, I am a mediocre Kenpoist, and I am a really lousy grappler.
But I also don't go chasing around to, say, grappling sites and start insulting everybody I can, or telling people I've never met that they're ignorant, or dumping on people's instructors. If you think this is a good idea, well, all's I can say is that you've missed out on some of the most important lessons that martial arts teach. But then, you probably threw out all that traditional stuff like courtesy and hard, patient work anyway.
Wow, I hope you don't hate me that much! I thought most of my discussion on the TOW was pretty polite. I even tried to be supportive of the TOW on a couple of Grappling forums. Certainly, you don't put me in the same category as the young arrogant homophobes you disdain so much on the grappling forums. After all, I am not a young arrogant homophobe--I'm an old one!
