Take the test is your school a mcdojo.

[J-kid]

Also you say with out contracts it is bussiness sucide, I believe if you have a strong effective program you dont need contracts because happy constermer come back. What would safeway or qfc or any of them do if you had to sign a contract to eat there. Get real, They get bussiness because they provide a job and they do it well. Your funny

 

[Matt Stone]

Originally posted by Judo-kid
Also you say with out contracts it is bussiness sucide, I believe if you have a strong effective program you dont need contracts because happy constermer come back. What would safeway or qfc or any of them do if you had to sign a contract to eat there. Get real, They get bussiness because they provide a job and they do it well. Your funny

I may be funny to you, but to me you are an inexperienced youngster that has no knowledge of the legal pitfalls a commercial school has in store for it if it is unable to protect itself in court...

Have you ever been to court? If so, how many times? I have been to court dozens of times, and that has just been last month...

If the business wants to stay in business, it has contracts. The instructor's relationship to the student, the nature of the services provided, etc., all need to be covered. Comparing Safeway and martial arts is apples and oranges. If you did something at Safeway that was potentially dangerous, you would have to sign a contractual liability waiver that relieved Safeway and its agents of any actual resposibility for your injuries... Eating their food doesn't constitute the same legal relationship.

So Yiliquan1 are you saying that my instruters are having me go around bashing things and promoting them. Answer, Not at all.

Am I incorrect in the knowledge that your judo coach is the same coach that made the news some time back for having his children refuse to bow at judo competitions? This was done for what reason other than to make a name for himself? His religious convictions? Then they didn't have to compete. Sorry to bring this up, and doubly sorry if the information (that I think you supplied right after you joined Martial Talk; although I have no idea if you are still training with him, so the info may be out of date) is incorrect. Either way, the judo organizations told him bow or don't participate. He had his 15 minutes of fame at the expense of his children. If he really wanted to make a point, and not a name, he shouldn't have used his kids, but gone and refused himself...

Whatever.

Bottom line, the definition of what is and is not McDojo qualifying is relative and subjective. It could be said that an MMA dojo that markets itself as such is a McDojo because it is riding the current MA trend like the nina schools of the 80s or the BJJ schools of the 90s...

So, when are you coming to Puyallup?

Gambarimasu.
:asian:

 

[J-kid]

ouch lol low blow.

My coach for Judo John R Holm. Is one of the best in the state and if you dont believe me take a look at judo tournments because we usaully rank Number `1.

Under

US Judo Training center

Not to mention the fact he spent over `100000 dollars in court and now you no longer have to bow to the mat.

He was nt lying about his childern they really are not suppost to bow to the mat, O wait i only know them.

Also I dont like bowing to the mat, Why the hell should i bow to somthing that isnt a live. I dont really care that much about bowing to people but objects that arnt even human give me a break.

You also noted that i know nothing about bussiness, Again your wrong i happen to know most bussiness that open usally fail but thats no reasion to inloop people in contracts.

I also train at TAP-WRESTLING as well as US Judo Training center.

 

[Matt Stone]

Have you ever run a business? That would give you something with which to back up your comments...

Have you ever taught? Are you aware that you are liable for everything that happens within the class room, to include things that you were not physically responsible for? Do you know what you need to do to protect yourself legally? Do you know how lawsuits work, or how a business and a proprietor differ?

If the answer to any of those questions is "no," then it is likely you don't have enough information to support your claims.

Again, contracts alone do not make a McDojo.

Sorry for the low blow. The point bore revisiting to point out that in some people's eyes your coach could be guilty of running a McDojo based on other criteria. I never questioned his skills - from what I understand they are quite respectable. It is his public displays that make him run the line of McDojo and the reasons for them. Not his skills.

Gambarimasu.
:asian:

 

[J-kid]

First off i never said signing a contract makes it a mcdojo.

What i did say was it is part of the criterea of most mcdojos.

Also i happen to know alot of people and have talked to alot of people who own there own little bussiness and asked them what it took. Anyhow in martial arts they usally need a good 5 grand worth insurience and there are many other things i under stand that it is tough.

Another thing is most tradinal Judoka people hate my coach, But he is a good guy. I do believe he beleives in the anti bowing moviment and it is not a way to make his school bigger at all.

 

[J-kid]

Lol i said 5 grand ment 5 million.

 

[Aegis]

To my mind, bowing is a part of judo. If you don't want to bow because of religious reasons, then you probably shouldn't be doing a martial art which requires you do do so by the rules of the international governing body. It's one of the ways of saying "this is me, I'm in the fighting area and ready to go" without actually having to say that to the judge/instructor. It's a quick and easy way of identifying people leaving or entering classes. It's a sign of respect too, but that seems to have been lost on a lot of people, and they instead focus on the first two points instead.

As for what makes a McDojo... Not totally sure on this one. I'm sure I've seen a few tha were obvious at the time, but I can't remember why.

 

[J-kid]

Yeah you know by saying that you proble piss off alot of buddist and muslim people around the world. I am nether yet still martial arts has nothing to do with bowing.
It may deal with respect but if its in your relegion not to bow then you really shoudlnt have to.

First off you can use a friendly hand shake instead for these people.

People who have relegious reasons for not bowing shouldnt have to in a sport.

Thats just like saying weman shouldnt wrestle.

 

[qizmoduis]

Bowing in Judo and in Japanese culture isn't religious in nature. It is the cultural equivalent of the western handshake. Bowing is part of the sport. If you don't like, don't participate.

Why should "religious reasons" be given special priority? In most cases I've seen, "religious objections" is really code for "I'm a pretentious, ignorant moron who is intent on imposing my uneducated provinciality on the rest of society at large."

If you didn't understand that, allow me to distill it for you: Objecting to bowing in judo on religious grounds is STUPID!

Now, as to the McDojo question, you have to take things said at Bullshido.com with a HUGE pile of salt. The place is dominated by MMA fanatics. They have a few good things to say, but the majority of it is pointless posturing.

 

[KennethKu]

You don't bow when you turn on your Sony TV. You don't bow when you get into your Toyota. You don't bow when you pick up your Samsung cell phone. Why should you bow when you learn to use a Korean art or a Japanese art?

That said, I don't see any problem in bowing to the instructors. That is no difference than saluting your superiors in the military or shaking hand with your boss. But I don't particularly care to bow at a foreign flag or the picture of the late founder. At another person who returns my greeting, yes. At an object, hmmm kind of silly.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

My only question here is, since the bow is considered the equivilent of a handshake, but folks object to bowing as a violation of their 'religious' beliefs, then how does one respond when told a handshake is a violation of the other parties beliefs?

 

[KennethKu]

I say, When in Rome, do what the Romans do.

You basically follow the custom of the land, unless it "shocks your conscience" such as headhunting or something criminal in nature.

When in Japan, you bow. When in America, you shake hand.

 

[J-kid]

Lol we will have to move on to somthing everything can do :cheers:

 

[J-kid]

Also another reason for those who dont know much about judo and japan. Judo has alot of Shinto Relegion in it but if its gonna be a world sport then they shouldnt make poeple bow who cant under there relegion.

 

[Marginal]

Far better for random crazies to enforce their beliefs on others I suppose.

 

[Hollywood1340]

Originally posted by Judo-kid
Also another reason for those who dont know much about judo and japan. Judo has alot of Shinto Relegion in it but if its gonna be a world sport then they shouldnt make poeple bow who cant under there relegion.

Excuse me? :rofl: That is good JK, would someone open a window? This thread reeks of ignorance. Oh boy, good thing I wasn't drinking milk when I read this one. Let's start at the begining. The bow has nothing absolutly to do with religion. Nothing whatsoever. However, if you'd like to dissuss this, we can. What is your take on the bow, and how does Shinto enter into it? (I must admit I've never heard Judo and Shinto linked, Zen and Judo yes, but never Shinto.)

 

[Bob Hubbard]

ok, we're drifting and I take part of the blame....

Lets keep this one on the 'mcdojo' concept, and if someone wants to continue the bowing/religion part, please start a new thread.
Thanks!

 

[J-kid]

Ok smart guy, I only do judo (points to the name)
Judo was founded by Shintoist and Alot has to do with the shinto relegion, Even the trouphys are shinto Gates Come on now.
ROFL

 

[Matt Stone]

Yet again, Judo-kid, you display your lack of first hand knowledge...

I lived in Japan for four years. You ever been there, even just to visit? You would be surprised, I think, at how religion plays so little a part of daily Japanese living. In fact, if you ask a typical Japanese what religion they are (assuming they are not a rabid Christian convert), they will look at you quizzically while trying to figure out how to respond...

Shinto, as an organized religion, isn't. Most people who do observe Shinto rituals often have no clue as to the reason they do the things they do. They just know that they are supposed to do them, and they don't worry much about the why of it.

Bowing in Japan is exactly the same as shaking hands. Even in Christian doctrine, bowing is common-place. The difference between religious bowing and non-religious bowing is in the intention... If you bow to a person/thing/place with a sense of religious devotion, awe and reverence, then it is religiously motivated. If you bow to a person/thing/place with a sense of respect and acknowledgement, then it is not.

If you had experience living outside the community you reside in, you may find that you don't know all the things you think you do...

Gambarimasu.
:asian:

 

[J-kid]

Well can you shake hands with a picture or a mat or how about the fact that it is somewhat submissive. Why most of the time in pictures you see a guy bowing lower then the other guy, This is gonna get ugly. Wanna just start a new thread on bowing and keep this on the mcdojo subject?

Gotta go Dust off some of the old paper work to do with bowing sigh.