Tai Chi Combat Self Defense

[macher]

What do you mean by "tested"? Was he in on it, or did you just decide to bully him?

I bully him. Apologized after he was scared sh*tless.

 

[ChenAn]

I bully him. Apologized after he was scared sh*tless.

Next time try it Texas


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[Buka]

My old sparring partner, Billy Blanks, is a beast of man. And Billy has trained with, or fought, just about everyone all over the world at one time or another. I asked him once, who the baddest man he ever met in the Martial world was.

He didn't even hesitate. He said his Tai Chi instructor from Pennsylvania, a Master Chan. Told me some great stories. He also said Master Chan's mom, also a life long Tai Chi practitioner, a little bitty woman, was pretty scary. In a nice way.

I never forgot that.

 

[macher]

If one is not aware that he freezes under pressure than one had lack of intelligence Didn’t we just saw a kiai master who had courage to challenge outside fighter and skills to brainwash his students, but unfortunately lacked intelligence to avoid place in himself in such ridiculous situation?

Courage alone won’t fix stupid


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Obviously he had faulce

My old sparring partner, Billy Blanks, is a beast of man. And Billy has trained with, or fought, just about everyone all over the world at one time or another. I asked him once, who the baddest man he ever met in the Martial world was.

He didn't even hesitate. He said his Tai Chi instructor from Pennsylvania, a Master Chan. Told me some great stories. He also said Master Chan's mom, also a life long Tai Chi practitioner, a little bitty woman, was pretty scary. In a nice way.

I never forgot that.

When I practiced Bagua years ago we went to this school in PA. She was a small Chinese woman and we were there to spar with her students. I would say she was in her mid to upper 70’s. Didn’t know we could spar with her. Being young I decided I wanted to spar with her. She kicked my *** and my pride. I’ll never forget she used her whole body without any space and I went hard into the wall. Like a shoulder bump. Damn I forget the name.

 

[JowGaWolf]

I’m not referring to fighting someone in the ring as a sport. But self defense in the real world.

For me it's not this way. For me it's still the same. Applicable skill sets develops courage. Many in my generation used to speak that courage stuff, and some of those same people are dead because they felt they had to prove their courage.

Biggie Smalls and Tupac are like the poster kids for this type of behavior.

All the intelligence in the world means nothing if you don’t have the courage. Many many people who MA intelligence will freeze when the situation arises.

If they are freezing then it's most likely they don't have the applicable skill sets to deal with the situation that they are in.

 

[JowGaWolf]

I bully him. Apologized after he was scared sh*tless.

lol.. well can't fault you for being honest

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

Most altercations in real like you won’t be subject to those kicks. Yes you can’t assume that but most of the time it’s not against a skilled fighter.

From what you're saying here I don't get why you would want to train tai chi. All you want is something to teach you the quick ways to deal with an untrained fighter? Learn krav maga or an RBSD, that's what their focus is.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

Against an average Joe all you need is a little more skill. But skill isn’t the key. The key is mentality. For instance a couple of months ago I tested a co worker of mine. I started pushing him and yelling at him. What did he do? He froze. I know for a fact I wouldn’t have froze and wouldn’t let anyone push me. After the first push I would have done something I wouldn’t have froze.

I bully him. Apologized after he was scared sh*tless.

I'm assuming that you're friends with the guy, otherwise you wouldn't have done this? I'm also assuming you're at work since you specified coworker? Correct me if either of those are wrong.

If not...are you certain that if a friend came up to you at work and started pushing and yelling at you, that you wouldn't freeze? That's a very specific scenario and different than a fight. If someone does that at a bar, I'm pretty sure I know how I'll respond because I've been in fights before. If someone I know and don't expect violence from were to all of a sudden assault me (not using the legal sense, but overwhelm me from the physical/verbal aspect), that's a lot tougher to call. I may do the same thing in the bar...or my brain may try to process what is going on (different than lack of courage, as again, I've been in enough fights to know I have that), and 'short circuit' in a sense.

What my brain may go through:

"Am I being attacked? Should I fight back? Wait that's Steve...do I attack him and hurt him, or refrain him. Wait...I'm at work. Is it a good idea for me to fight at all here? Can I just run away, or would that cause issues? Hang on a second, why is Steve attacking me? And why would he do that at work? He's yelling...is he actually attacking me or pushing me out of the way of something? Should I go back farther? Should I just stay still where he pushed me? Did I do something to him...do we need to talk this out before it gets really violent? Wait a second...is it worth that risk...should I just attack him now? But it's Steve. I like Steve. I don't want to hurt Steve. But I don't want Steve to hurt me. Well he only pushed me once...and he's not yelling anymore. I think I'm good, let's just ask him what happened."

And if there's a weapon involved, add: "Do I take out my weapon? If I do will I/will I have to use it? I'm at work, am I even allowed to have a weapon? What if my supervisor sees it? What if he does the same, and now it's a knife fight in the office?"

That entire thought process could happen from someone trained fight, with every confidence in the world that he could beat Steve. Personally, that thought process would be very different from, at a bar. "That guy just swung at me!" Followed by either "I'm going to protect myself.", "Is X okay?" or "Let me back up and see what's going on.". That's a split second process, that's decided by the other circumstances involved.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

I'm assuming that you're friends with the guy, otherwise you wouldn't have done this? I'm also assuming you're at work since you specified coworker? Correct me if either of those are wrong.

If not...are you certain that if a friend came up to you at work and started pushing and yelling at you, that you wouldn't freeze? That's a very specific scenario and different than a fight. If someone does that at a bar, I'm pretty sure I know how I'll respond because I've been in fights before. If someone I know and don't expect violence from were to all of a sudden assault me (not using the legal sense, but overwhelm me from the physical/verbal aspect), that's a lot tougher to call. I may do the same thing in the bar...or my brain may try to process what is going on (different than lack of courage, as again, I've been in enough fights to know I have that), and 'short circuit' in a sense.

What my brain may go through:

"Am I being attacked? Should I fight back? Wait that's Steve...do I attack him and hurt him, or refrain him. Wait...I'm at work. Is it a good idea for me to fight at all here? Can I just run away, or would that cause issues? Hang on a second, why is Steve attacking me? And why would he do that at work? He's yelling...is he actually attacking me or pushing me out of the way of something? Should I go back farther? Should I just stay still where he pushed me? Did I do something to him...do we need to talk this out before it gets really violent? Wait a second...is it worth that risk...should I just attack him now? But it's Steve. I like Steve. I don't want to hurt Steve. But I don't want Steve to hurt me. Well he only pushed me once...and he's not yelling anymore. I think I'm good, let's just ask him what happened."

And if there's a weapon involved, add: "Do I take out my weapon? If I do will I/will I have to use it? I'm at work, am I even allowed to have a weapon? What if my supervisor sees it? What if he does the same, and now it's a knife fight in the office?"

That entire thought process could happen from someone trained fight, with every confidence in the world that he could beat Steve. Personally, that thought process would be very different from, at a bar. "That guy just swung at me!" Followed by either "I'm going to protect myself.", "Is X okay?" or "Let me back up and see what's going on.". That's a split second process, that's decided by the other circumstances involved.

As a side note, it was a lot of fun imagining what I might think in that situation. I just let my mind ramble, and out it came

 

[zzj]

I have more than 4 years of tai chi training, but the only person I can confidently win is my six yr old son

 

[Zeny]

Taiji is obviously a martial art, is there ever any doubt about that?

 

[ChenAn]

The bottom line is: taiji comes in package of two wellness/longevity/health and martial arts.
Taiji is not for everyone.
Taiji is not efficient way to learn combative usage quickly and requires time
Spending years practicing taiji doesn’t guarantee success.
A good qualified teacher is a key.
Until body method is learnt and understand applications/usage will only work with brute physical strength.
Compensating for lack of skills by vigorous none taiji related conditioning defeating the purpose of practicing taiji on the first place.

Do we agree ?


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[Xue Sheng]

The bottom line is: taiji comes in package of two wellness/longevity/health and martial arts.
Taiji is not for everyone.
Taiji is not efficient way to learn combative usage quickly and requires time
Spending years practicing taiji doesn’t guarantee success.
A good qualified teacher is a key.
Until body method is learnt and understand applications/usage will only work with brute physical strength.
Compensating for lack of skills by vigorous none taiji related conditioning defeating the purpose of practicing taiji on the first place.

Do we agree ?


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Speaking as a Yang Style guy who has been at it for over 25 years...yes...we agree

 

[Zeny]

The infamous limp noodle arms say:

Taiji is a martial art which follows ying and yang. Out of this, there are a thousand different forms, which are in turn practised by a million people, of different backgrounds, age, race, and build. Everyone has their own understanding of taiji. But as long as we follow the concept of ying and yang, of softness to defeat hardness, of change to defeat stagnancy, we are practising taiji.

Taiji comes in only one package, which is ying and yang. If we only practise ten minutes a day, we will gain wellness and health, but will only scratch the surface of taiji.

Taiji is obviously not for everyone. One man’s honey is another man’s poison.

Taiji, if practised correctly under 24/7 guidance of a grandmaster, is the most efficient way to learn fighting, as in one year spent practising taiji is better than a year spent in any other art. But not everyone has 24/7 access to a grandmaster.

Hard work doesn’t guarantee success in anything.

A good qualified teacher is the key to learning anything.

Brute physical strength is the baseline for all healthy adults. From there, taiji and the different arts improve this baseline. Taiji especially, molds the body into steel wrapped in cotton able to express true internal strength, conveniently named as ‘jin’.

To condition a taiji body, the form is the best method. All other methods, vigorous or not, may or may not help to a lesser or greater extent. So don’t waste time, just practise the form.

Thus the limp noodle arms hath spoketh.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

The bottom line is: taiji comes in package of two wellness/longevity/health and martial arts. ... Do we agree ?

I don't agree that Taiji is even good for longevity/health. The reason are:

1. No weight training - You may lose bone density in old age.
2. No heart stress test - The slow Taiji movement does not make your heart to work enough.
3. Not enough single leg balance training - You may lose balance and fall in old age.

 

[ChenAn]

I don't agree that Taiji is even good for longevity/health. The reason are:

1. No weight training - You may lose bone density in old age.
2. No heart stress test - The slow Taiji movement does not make your heart to work enough.
3. Not enough single leg balance training - You may lose balance and fall in old age.

It doesn’t seem like you know much about traditional taiji


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[Kung Fu Wang]

It doesn’t seem like you know much about traditional taiji.

If you don't agree with my opinion just give your reason. There is no need for personal attack.

Here is my teacher's Taiji.

 

[Xue Sheng]

OK, this will likely not end well.

But based on this

If you don't agree with my opinion just give your reason. There is no need for personal attack.

Here is my teacher's Taiji.

I can see why you say this

I don't agree that Taiji is even good for longevity/health. The reason are:

1. No weight training - You may lose bone density in old age.
2. No heart stress test - The slow Taiji movement does not make your heart to work enough.
3. Not enough single leg balance training - You may lose balance and fall in old age.

And I agree with ChenAn post...and I will critique the video no further

It doesn’t seem like you know much about traditional taiji


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I leg postures in traditiaonal Yang
右蹬脚 Right Heel Kick
左蹬脚 Left Heel Kick
转身右蹬脚 Turn Body and Right Heel Kick
左金鸡独立 Golden Rooster Stands on One Leg, Left
右金鸡独立 Golden Rooster Stands on One Leg, Right
十字腿 Cross Kick

My flavor of Yang

The Chen I use to do

And to clarify, none of these people are me.

The side by side Yang is Tung Ying Chieh and his Son Tung Hu Ling
Tung Ying Chieh is my Shigong and was my teacher's teacher

The Chen is Chen Zhenglei
I learned Laojia Yilu from Chen Zhenglei and some of his students
I learned the 18 form from one of hie students

I also have done a Wu style competition form and of course like many taiji folks the Beijing 24 form. but these I do not consider traditional and I no longer do the Wu form

Going back to the Yang that I do from Tung Ying Chieh
The style also includes
2 Fast forms
1 Jian Form
2 Dao forms
1 staff form
and various types of push hands training including stick and sticky
As well as various qigong forms

 

[ChenAn]

If you don't agree with my opinion just give your reason. There is no need for personal attack.

Here is my teacher's Taiji.

Sorry for my ignorance but I don’t know much about person on this video. I’m practicing Chenshi Dajja taiji and not familiar with other branches, but for what it worth here is bid of 92 years old practitioner practicing my frame

Here is article about him (he is around 100 now)
http://kuaibao.qq.com/s/20180318G0URDJ00?refer=spider


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[Kung Fu Wang]

Sorry for my ignorance but I don’t know much about person on this video.

We may have some generation gap here.

Here is my student's Taiji. This video was filmed 35 years ago.