Taekwondo/American Karate question?

[FasterthanDeath]

Ok this will be posted in both Kenpo and Taekwondo forums. Here is the question. Kenpo is called American Karate, but when I go to dojangs and schools here in Texas, they say they teach American Karate, but its Taekwondo. So who is teaching American Karate? Kenpoists or Taekwondo practioners?

 

[terryl965]

here in the great state of Texas they call it both ways, but in 90% of the country calls it Anerican Karate..... God Bless America

 

[Faye]

This is weird. What exactly is American Karate? How is it different from the various schools of Karate? (Shin Ryo...etc?)
And how is American Karate related to taekwondo???

 

[Touch Of Death]

This is weird. What exactly is American Karate? How is it different from the various schools of Karate? (Shin Ryo...etc?)
And how is American Karate related to taekwondo???

Your looking for a japanese meaning to an Americanized word. TKD is becoming American Karate because it is, by far, the most popular "empty handed" fighting system in the United States. Kenpo was the first commercial empty handed fighting system introduced to America; therefore, it also has a claim to the term "American Karate". Either way neither system considers itself "true Karate" unless someone calls the studio or Dojang looking for "true" Karate, then suddenly our systems are "true Karate". :asian:
Sean

 

[Han-Mi]

I think the basic idea is that before anyone is involved in the MA's they call it all Karate, kung fu, or judo. Even my school advertises as TKD and Sport Karate, for comercial purposes I suppose. It's just a way for people to feel familiar with the art before they learn it.

 

[MichiganTKD]

In my opinion, the term "American Karate" or "American "Tae Kwon Do" is used by people as a marketing ploy to denote a style that has several characteristics they believe to be more in line with what Americans want:
1. More flash. Colored uniforms, ornate weapons, training rooms heavy on the bells and whistles. In short, shiny objects we don't really need but make us feel better about practicing.
2. Less emphasis on forms. I think many Instructors feel forms are an outdated relic of a bygone age that are useless.
3. More emphasis on "realistic, street-style self defense". Americans want to learn how to defend themselves against any kind of attacker under any conditions.
4. Little to no emphasis on manners, tradition, and etiquette. This is America. Why should we bow to a foreign flag or to each other? Bowing won't teach you to disarm a gunman in 5 seconds?
5. Camoflage belts. Sorry, couldn't resist.
In short, "American-style MA" is technique stripped of whatever makes it culturally unique.

 

[kik]

Exactly like Han-Mi says it's easier for people to say and understand karate as a martial art they dont understand the word tae kwon do They also dont realize that the primary weapon in karate "so I've been told is Open Hand" and the primary weapon in TKD is foot. with the hand as a secondary weapon, that's they way it has been taught to me for the past 12 yrs and the way I teach it.

Just my opinion.
KIK

 

[Han-Mi]

Exactly like Han-Mi says it's easier for people to say and understand karate as a martial art they dont understand the word tae kwon do They also dont realize that the primary weapon in karate "so I've been told is Open Hand" and the primary weapon in TKD is foot. with the hand as a secondary weapon, that's they way it has been taught to me for the past 12 yrs and the way I teach it.

Just my opinion.
KIK

Of course the foot is your primary weapon, It can hit from further away. But we try to keep a good emphasis on the fact that your kicking distance may be penitrated and you must be skilled with your hands as well.

I know this has nothing to do with the original post, but I couldn't resist.

As for Michigan, You assume and generalize too much. Calm down.

 

[MichiganTKD]

I go based on what I see.
What I see is people teaching what they call "American Style" because they don't want to teach manners and etiquette, philosophy, traditional technique, and forms. So they call it "American Style" and remove all of that. What it is is essentially street fighting.
Of course, I also see people proclaiming to teach traditional Tae Kwon Do teaching something I don't recognize.

 

[Touch Of Death]

So you are against imparting western values instead of imersing children in a foreign culture and its values. What would be fundimentaly wrong with say a Pentacostle Tae Kwon Do club? Or maybre I'm just trying to say that its rather unfair to brand western philosophy and etiquette as a bad thing. :asian:
Sean

 

[MichiganTKD]

Depends on what those Western values are.
For instance, I know students who shake hands as well as bow after sparring someone. That's fine. You are doing the traditional Korean and Western acts of respect. Adding patches to denote club, teaching level, academic achievement etc. is fine too. However, some students go waayy overboard.
I'm talking about removing traditional Oriental aspects of practice because you feel they have no place in a Western-based class
1. Not bowing out of religious fear
2. Using colored uniforms to make students feel special
3. Removing forms, or making up your own, because you want to focus on "street effectiveness"
4. Removing Oriental philosophy and putting Christian philosophy in its place. Why not explain how Oriental philosophy and Christian philosophy are similar?
5. Focusing on making money as opposed to honor and good teaching.
6. Trying to incorporate 10 different styles into your program because you want to cover all bases.

Some of these have been covered in other threads BTW.

 

[FasterthanDeath]

What kind of western values would you put into it? What would make it "American Karate"? When I think of the title I think of an art created in the states which has the same basics as karate. Empty hand fighting. Now as far as morals, religion, and etiquette go I believe that is in the spiritual aspect of the MA.

 

[MichiganTKD]

Unless you're going to completely redefine and change how techniques are executed, completely redefine forms, and completely redefine sparring, calling something "American Tae Kwon Do" or whatever is impossible. Every once in a while it happens. Modern TKD is much different than the way it was practiced 40-50 years ago. But the changes it has experienced have been initiated and carried out by Korean-born Instructors. I cannot think of one American-born Instructor who has redefined Tae Kwon Do so much it merits being called "American Tae Kwon Do". Anyway, if an American redefined Tae Kwon Do that much, it would no longer be Tae Kwon Do.
Any changes in a so-called American system tend to be more cosmetic or the result of adding other styles. It is still Tae Kwon Do with less emphasis on etiquette, more BJJ or other styles, fancier uniforms etc.
And very few people have the ability to redefine a style to the point where it is now something else but just as good:
Ueshiba, Parker, Won Kuk Lee, and Gen. Choi come to mind.

 

[Touch Of Death]

Unless you're going to completely redefine and change how techniques are executed, completely redefine forms, and completely redefine sparring, calling something "American Tae Kwon Do" or whatever is impossible. Every once in a while it happens. Modern TKD is much different than the way it was practiced 40-50 years ago. But the changes it has experienced have been initiated and carried out by Korean-born Instructors. I cannot think of one American-born Instructor who has redefined Tae Kwon Do so much it merits being called "American Tae Kwon Do". Anyway, if an American redefined Tae Kwon Do that much, it would no longer be Tae Kwon Do.
Any changes in a so-called American system tend to be more cosmetic or the result of adding other styles. It is still Tae Kwon Do with less emphasis on etiquette, more BJJ or other styles, fancier uniforms etc.
And very few people have the ability to redefine a style to the point where it is now something else but just as good:
Ueshiba, Parker, Won Kuk Lee, and Gen. Choi come to mind.

Whats so special about being Korean born, while I wouldn't dain to think a white man capable, why couldn't an American Born Korean take stab at Americanizing TKD?
Sean

 

[DragonFooter]

If anybody americanize Taekwondo pleaseeeeeeeee don't use the name taekwondo any further . It's becoming to confusing and way too popular, i mean the name......

 

[Touch Of Death]

If anybody americanize Taekwondo pleaseeeeeeeee don't use the name taekwondo any further . It's becoming to confusing and way too popular, i mean the name......

what? I thought it meant hand foot way. What confusing about that?
Sean

 

[Han-Mi]

what? I thought it meant hand foot way. What confusing about that?
Sean

Actually, it translates kinda backwards. The way of the hand and foot.

still not confusing though

 

[MichiganTKD]

I didn't say an American-born Instructor couldn't substantially change Tae Kwon Do in a meaningful way, I said none has. And by that I mean what I stated before: changing physical, philosophical, and technical aspects in a substantial way to create something new but equally valid.
I have seen plenty of American Instructors create mish-mosh styles because they studied Kuk Sool Won, Hapkido, etc. and give themselves 10th Dan rank. Combat Hapkido and others comes to mind.

 

[Touch Of Death]

MTKD,
It doesn't sound like The traditionalists are in the mood to accept inovations and Americanization. Wouldn't it be more fair to say you aren't looking for successful Americanization to happen.
Sean :asian:

 

[MichiganTKD]

Not at all. Depends on what those innovations are. For instance, using English terminology instead of Korean in America is a natural occurence teaching in a Western nation.
There is a difference between developing a new program based on years of study and just reinventing the wheel. I've never seen an American Instructor create something new that wasn't just an obvious ripoff of that which already exists.
How many ways can you reinvent Hapkido or Kuk Sool Won? Combat or American Tae Kwon Do is just somebody reinventing what already exists.