Tae Kwon Do and Brazilian Jiu Jitsu

[Tez3]

I envy the children learning Judo and BJJ, it comes more naturally to them when they are young, especially the breakfalls!
Doing two different styles that I think compliment each other is ideal, if it were two styles that were very similiar I think it would cause confusion. I wouldn't recommend doing TKD and a karate style for example though both are great they are too similiar for children or beginners to do both well. A stand up style and a ground style are an ideal match.

 

[Twin Fist]

we were discussing this very thing in class recently, that women get grabbed by the wrist , but by and large, men dont.

yet every system out there teached defense versus wrist grabs..lol

I've had my wrists grabbed, it's a thing guys do to women (and children) more than to other men.

As to the multiple attacker thing I quote again from Renzo and Royler, ( I enjoy this book as Royler is fit and my favourite Gracie lol)

" Grappling skills wil not allow you to destroy several attackers at once. Brazilian juijitsu makes no claim to teach a method of overwhelming mass attacks. Should you be heavily outnumbered, BJJ will not save you. It is the contention of the authors that no other style of empty hand fighting will save you either.(their italics) the martial arts world is full of overinflated claims...."

 

[Tez3]

My shift partner was grabbed by the wrist by a very large Fijian when he asked him for his ID, the Fijian refused, grabbed him by the wrist, threw him to the floor where they grappled until the dog handler came to rescue my partner.
While women are mostly the ones grabbed like this, it would be silly not to learn them on the basis that being a man means you won't be grabbed. martial arts for defence is about learning as much as you can and preparing yourself yourself for anything.

 

[Twin Fist]

thats why i said "by and large", not "at all"

:ultracool

 

[Tez3]

Well there's plenty of other very useful defences in BJJ if you care to look for them.
Assuming BJJ is all about groundwork and nothing else is a shame as you close your mind to the possibilities within that style. One should look closely into a style, Judo isn't just throwing, TKD isn't just high kicks, karate isn't just 'karate chops' and MT all about knees strikes, Sumo isn't just fat men pushing each other. There's so much more behind all of these.

 

[Twin Fist]

well said

 

[phlaw]

We have been incorporating grappling/jjitsu into our TKD school for many years (I think we started around 95' or 96'). My instructors yearly open tournament has grappling divisions and even a Full Contact Bogu division.

 

[terryl965]

We have been incorporating grappling/jjitsu into our TKD school for many years (I think we started around 95' or 96'). My instructors yearly open tournament has grappling divisions and even a Full Contact Bogu division.

So how well is it taken

 

[SA_BJJ]

yeah, cuz that is FACTUALLY wrong. Unless you are talking about Olympic style wtf crap.

I wasnt wrong about BJJ. You might not LIKE it, but I wasnt wrong by any means. Sure, high kicks are not a good idea, and might very well get you hurt, but there is MORE to TKD than high kicks. Ask the ROK marines.

There is NOTHING to bjj that aint on the ground. On the STREET, you dont want to be on the ground.

I MAY have been overly blunt, but i am not factaully wrong.

And tez has a point, the OP was about kids being exposed to different styles, and thats a GOOD thing, as long as they are told the TRUTH about what is GOOD self defense and what isnt.

And theres more to BJJ than just laying on your back...

 

[BrandonLucas]

I think it's great that cross-training is happening this early!! I wish there were grappling schools close to where I live, because I would love to get involved in a grappling art.

To briefly touch on the stuff that was being said earlier...sport BJJ is different than sport TKD...it's apples and oranges. I wouldn't dare take something from sport TKD and attempt to use it in a realistic situation...whereas there are opportunities to use techniques taught in sport BJJ in SD situations. Fights can and do go to the ground...and there are aspects of BJJ that teach you how to get back to your feet from being on the ground.

Sure, Royce didn't have good standup....but I didn't see him lose in UFC 1 or 2. And the only rules there were no eye gouging, no biting, no fish hooking, and no groin shots. That's about as close to real as you can get, and last time I checked, Royce won against other stand up styles...because the fighters didn't know what to expect, sure, but what he fought with isn't too far off the mark from what's being taught today.

Don't get me wrong...I don't like the sport side of martial arts at all...but if you really want to start comparing arts, and be fair about it...then sport TKD is not the greatest thing to hold up in comparison.

And there is such a thing as BJJ for SD purposes, just the same as TKD is used for SD. Don't knock it until you've actually tried to spar someone with the experience in both. It's not easy.

 

[Twin Fist]

Sure, Royce didn't have good standup....but I didn't see him lose in UFC 1 or 2. And the only rules there were no eye gouging, no biting, no fish hooking, and no groin shots. That's about as close to real as you can get, and last time I checked, Royce won against other stand up styles...because the fighters didn't know what to expect, sure, but what he fought with isn't too far off the mark from what's being taught today.

not quite

he won because his family stacked the deck in his favor from the word go

they designed the ring to give him the advantage, No one had ever held a match in a cage like that, but the gracies had one in thier studio

the mat in the cage was so soft it was almost impossible to throw a solid kick.

so many people complained about the mat they had to re-design it for UFC 3 or no one was gonna fight on it.

Hell, in UFC 2 they put him in against a nearly 60 year old guy.........

kimo and sakaruba showed just how fragile the gracies house of cards was


but all of that is off topic

I do believe that my students need to know some ground work.

enough to get back up on thier feet.

 

[Tez3]

not quite

he won because his family stacked the deck in his favor from the word go

they designed the ring to give him the advantage, No one had ever held a match in a cage like that, but the gracies had one in thier studio

the mat in the cage was so soft it was almost impossible to throw a solid kick.

so many people complained about the mat they had to re-design it for UFC 3 or no one was gonna fight on it.

Hell, in UFC 2 they put him in against a nearly 60 year old guy.........


kimo and sakaruba showed just how fragile the gracies house of cards was


but all of that is off topic





I do believe that my students need to know some ground work.

enough to get back up on thier feet.

I'd be a bit careful about slighting 60 year old fighters, I know an American fighter who's now over 60 but can beat people younger. Age is irrelevant if you are fit and technically good!In UFC2 which fighter are you talking about?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UFC_2

 

[BrandonLucas]

not quite

he won because his family stacked the deck in his favor from the word go

they designed the ring to give him the advantage, No one had ever held a match in a cage like that, but the gracies had one in thier studio

the mat in the cage was so soft it was almost impossible to throw a solid kick.

so many people complained about the mat they had to re-design it for UFC 3 or no one was gonna fight on it.

Hell, in UFC 2 they put him in against a nearly 60 year old guy.........

kimo and sakaruba showed just how fragile the gracies house of cards was


but all of that is off topic

I do believe that my students need to know some ground work.

enough to get back up on thier feet.

That was not the point of what I was trying to say about the fights...even if things were stacked against them...if they were good at what they did, they would have been able to deal with Gracie on any kind of surface...that's just an excuse.

I do agree with what you're saying about teaching student how to get back to their feet. I just hope that you're not narrowing your thinking to the fact that fights can and do go to the ground, and knowing what to do when you get there is a valuable assett. BJJ is not all about what you see on the UFC. I don't take BJJ, and I can realize and understand that.

I've scrapped with a few guys before (not serious fighting, just fighting without trying to kill your opponent...all in fun) that were profecient in grappling...and I can tell you from first hand experience, even knowing enough to get back to your feet isn't always enough to win a fight against and experienced grappler. Just being put on the ground and getting back up takes alot out of you...and really, the list is too long to write out...too many variables.

It doesn't always come down to "Well, if I can keep the fight standing, I'll be ok,"....and I do believe this was discussed in the General Arts forum...fights don't always go the way you planned, and do often go to the ground.

Like I was saying before, BJJ isn't all about what you see in the UFC these days...there's more to it than pulling guard...and it's only common sense that you don't stay on the ground with multiple opponents...the subs and techniques that are taught in BJJ don't always have to be complex and require you to work your opponent just right like you see on the UFC.

Just don't sell it short. Heck, maybe you should even try it...it could change your perception. What would you have to lose?

 

[Pyrock]

Wow, this thread got interesting. I thought I would post some links to my sons tournament this past weekend so we can get this thread back on track.

This first video is of my son doing his stand-up sparring. Ironically, it's against a black belt kid who is a year or two older and slightly larger. Obviously the black belt is more experienced but my son will won on points. If you pay close attention, you might catch my son doing a superman punch and to my knowledge, no one has taught him this.

This is the Sports Jiu Jitsu match...again, against a black belt kid who is a year older and a bit larger. My son was a bit tired since this was his 5th event.

 

[Twin Fist]

Ron Van Clief
that must have been in UFC 3 then

too many years ago...lol

I'd be a bit careful about slighting 60 year old fighters, I know an American fighter who's now over 60 but can beat people younger. Age is irrelevant if you are fit and technically good!In UFC2 which fighter are you talking about?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UFC_2

 

[Twin Fist]

9 year old black belt?

rubbish

 

[BrandonLucas]

9 year old black belt?

rubbish

Is this really constructive for the OP? Why not instead check out the videos and comment on them?

 

[Tez3]

Nice videos! Grappling in head guards though? I take it they think thats a safety precaution? I think the opposite, when grappling they can get caught and choke someone. Our kids don't wear them for grappling, not safe. Ear guards that wrestlers wear are fine, they stop cauliflower ears.

TF, you must have looked UFC2/3 up you can't be old enough to remember them!!

 

[Twin Fist]

i did

that so called black belt was rubbish

ANY 9 year old black belt for that matter

 

[Twin Fist]

i am 41 tez, i watched the first 4 UFC's on cable. I am an old, old man...........the grappling video was fun, but i agree, the headgear seemed wrong