Systema a discussion

[Gweilo]

Fighting in wars doesn’t automatically make you a good fighter...yes being a soldier is a very brave and noble and tough thing to do and I take nothing away from it and yes some qualities of a soldier absolutely transfer over to fighting. Hard work, determination, aggression, strength and fitness. But I’ve spoken to numerous people who have served in the army and you get taught very little hand to hand combat as well you’ve got a gun and so does the opposition.

it’s like when boxers or MMA fighters come out and say I’m going to win because I was a soldier....well no not really....I mean yeah they’re tough as nails but it doesn’t mean they’re better at unarmed hand to hand combat than anyone else who trains regularly.

Agree, but what I am trying to learn, is composure in high pressure situations, clearly, I have further to go

 

[Gweilo]

Fighting in wars doesn’t automatically make you a good fighter...yes being a soldier is a very brave and noble and tough thing to do and I take nothing away from it and yes some qualities of a soldier absolutely transfer over to fighting. Hard work, determination, aggression, strength and fitness. But I’ve spoken to numerous people who have served in the army and you get taught very little hand to hand combat as well you’ve got a gun and so does the opposition.

it’s like when boxers or MMA fighters come out and say I’m going to win because I was a soldier....well no not really....I mean yeah they’re tough as nails but it doesn’t mean they’re better at unarmed hand to hand combat than anyone else who trains regularly.

Just to add, always been pretty good at fighting, keeping in control, was, as still occassionaly, my problem

 

[drop bear]

In systema, sparring is closed door, it is filmed, but needs everyones approval to publish, most videos are for training purposes, we have no competition or sports element, in your world, your teacher fought in a ring, my teacher fought in wars or hostage recovery situations, or counter terroism situations, both real to an extent, so what water divining, results based, completely left field, unrelated tosh, are you about to post now?

My teachers coach fought in Timor. His coach killed a man with his bare hands in Afghanistan.

I get the impression this meet up us going to turn in to a Charlie Zelenof thing. You keep saying friendly but then keep turning nasty.

Anyway obligatory video of proof of my claims.

And a side note to say being a war hero doesn't necessarily make you a top instructor. But if we are going to try to go down that route.

 

[Headhunter]

Just to add, always been pretty good at fighting, keeping in control, was, as still occassionaly, my problem

Okay...don’t really know the relevance of you telling me how good you are is to my comment....end of the day you want to be as relaxed as you can be in a fight (as said before you will never be fully relaxed) then you need to be comfortable getting hit and that means taking punches and having hard shots thrown at you whether that’s sparring or drills doesn’t really matter but you need to feel a real or at very least one with decent power to it coming at you so you know you can stop it and frankly this is just from what I’ve seen from systema I’ve never seen a REAL attack thrown In a systema drill..I’ve seen some very pitiful knife attacks where the partner Goes in with the knife with less speed and power than I use buttering toast then went full Steven segal and flipped to the floor by getting his wrist touched....not saying everywhere is like that but any school or videos I’ve seen all they take about is their breathing or their flow....I’ve never seen any actual drills or self defence taught just some yoga poses. Which hey nothing wrong with that. Again this isn’t me blindly hating this is what I’ve seen both in videos, training with people who do systema and going to seminars and classes. None of those people have changed my mind yet that’s all I’m saying

 

[Gweilo]

I get the impression this meet up us going to turn in to a Charlie Zelenof thing. You keep saying friendly but then keep turning nasty.

It will only get nasty, if you do, I admit the fact that some conversation can get heated, a little, for that I appologise, but we do seem to go around in circles.
If we are able to meet, I intend 2 things, 1 to learn what I can from you, and give you something in return, thats all I am interested in.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

REMINDER TO ALL MEMBERS:

Challenges are prohibited in the forum guidelines. Steer clear.

Gerry Seymour
MartialTalk Moderator
@gpseymour

 

[Gweilo]

REMINDER TO ALL MEMBERS:

Challenges are prohibited in the forum guidelines. Steer clear.

Gerry Seymour
MartialTalk Moderator
@gpseymour

It wasnt a challenge.

 

[Headhunter]

It wasnt a challenge.

Sounded like it to me.....and obviously did to the mods to

 

[Brian King]

@Gweilo
one of the things I have learned, perhaps you have also played with this, especially during multiple opponent fast drills is the absence of the need to address or defend yourself against every attack. Some attacks are hitting air missing you by an inch or more! Some lack weapons or power, some you can simply avoid by the attacking/defending of a different more important opportunity and letting that movement resolve the other attack/conflict. Perhaps like me, have you noticed the freedom to better see these opportunities more clearly when our view of the attack is neutral and not taken as attack against self and ego? Which do you think might be more important in the midst of that sort of opportunity- relaxing the tension in our eyes or perhaps taking the time for a nice cleansing inhale and exhale?

I am enjoying your thread and hope that you are as well.
Warmest Regards
Brian King

 

[Gweilo]

@Gweilo
one of the things I have learned, perhaps you have also played with this, especially during multiple opponent fast drills is the absence of the need to address or defend yourself against every attack. Some attacks are hitting air missing you by an inch or more! Some lack weapons or power, some you can simply avoid by the attacking/defending of a different more important opportunity and letting that movement resolve the other attack/conflict. Perhaps like me, have you noticed the freedom to better see these opportunities more clearly when our view of the attack is neutral and not taken as attack against self and ego? Which do you think might be more important in the midst of that sort of opportunity- relaxing the tension in our eyes or perhaps taking the time for a nice cleansing inhale and exhale?

I am enjoying your thread and hope

Hi Brian, for me the breath, my movement it linked but not dictated by my breathe, and without the breathing, relaxation is difficult.
I do enjoy multiple opponent fast drills, and agree with letting others waste their energy, by helping them miss the intended target, I really am missing training with others, been doing a lot of core strength training, ground flow, and some fantastic long breath walks in the woods with the dogs, The other thing I miss is sensitivity training, very much looking forward to a class of 25, blindfolded, on the floor, avoiding or defending contact, perhaps thats why I am keen on sparring with Drop bear, I miss the contact with others, but yes I am well thank you.

 

[drop bear]

@Gweilo
one of the things I have learned, perhaps you have also played with this, especially during multiple opponent fast drills is the absence of the need to address or defend yourself against every attack. Some attacks are hitting air missing you by an inch or more! Some lack weapons or power, some you can simply avoid by the attacking/defending of a different more important opportunity and letting that movement resolve the other attack/conflict. Perhaps like me, have you noticed the freedom to better see these opportunities more clearly when our view of the attack is neutral and not taken as attack against self and ego? Which do you think might be more important in the midst of that sort of opportunity- relaxing the tension in our eyes or perhaps taking the time for a nice cleansing inhale and exhale?

I am enjoying your thread and hope that you are as well.
Warmest Regards
Brian King

Technically you should be doing that anyway.

It is one of the things that dramatically changed my training is that I can't see punches coming at me at speed.

I had to develop a method to reduce the effective punches that I faced.

 

[Gweilo]

Just found this.

 

[Gweilo]

Technically you should be doing that anyway.

It is one of the things that dramatically changed my training is that I can't see punches coming at me at speed.

I had to develop a method to reduce the effective punches that I faced.

Is your method movement

 

[drop bear]

Is your method movement

Movement is not really a method. Because it doesn't explain anything.

Yes I move. Yes i avoid punches kicks and takedown where I can. But that is hardly helpful to anyone. Because everyone is basically trying to do that. That is what fighting basically is.

 

[drop bear]

Is your method movement

But this is the guy I am attempting to emulate.

And he cuts preemptive angles all the time which reduces the amount of effective striking against him without having to see every punch.

So footwork handles some. Good guard handles some and I consiously handle the rest.

 

[Gweilo]

I agree footwork is paramount, but what about controlling your opponents footwork, whilst having your footwork, ,in time with your opponents, his left touches down, your left touches down, with biomechanics, or the understanding of, do you not agree, if you are in time with your opponent, reading them is easier

 

[Gweilo]

Sorry forgot the random video

 

[Headhunter]

I agree footwork is paramount, but what about controlling your opponents footwork, whilst having your footwork, ,in time with your opponents, his left touches down, your left touches down, with biomechanics, or the understanding of, do you not agree, if you are in time with your opponent, reading them is easier

Doesn’t work like that in real combat.

 

[Gweilo]

Doesn’t work like that in real combat.

And how much real combat, have you had?

 

[Headhunter]

And how much real combat, have you had?

Plenty, in both the ring (point karate, boxing, kickboxing/Muay Thai and MMA) and working as a doorman both in restraining people and witnessing fights and working as a security guard at fight shows having to deal with drunks getting in crowd fights and never have I worried about biometrics and matching footwork and neither has anyone else in any fight because simply as I already stated when the fists are flying you haven’t got time to think about all that. It sounds good in theory though