Originally posted by DoxN4cer
That in itself is truly remarkable and rare. You don't see that every day.
Tim Kashino
No You do not see this every day.
Buy the tapes or DVD's and see who did make it, and the instruction they gave.
:asian:
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Originally posted by DoxN4cer
That in itself is truly remarkable and rare. You don't see that every day.
Tim Kashino
Originally posted by Dan Anderson
This is to Renegade's post:
Most all of this has been gone over already. Yes, it wasn't a pure Modern Arnis event. That is unfortunate. One of the things, however, was that it was also promoted as a showing of some of the different directions that some Modern Arnis players have taken. A showing of diversity, I suppose.
Most all of the instructors do have Modern Arnis backgrounds, whether they were under Remy Presas or under ranked one of his black belts. The only one I personally don't know if he has Modern Arnis background is Peter Vargas and that's only because I don't know him personally.
The teaching was varied and some strayed quite a bit from what RP taught and some hewed relatively close. Okay. Heck, you did some balintawak concepts one of your slots.
Yes, we could've used a lunch break. Rich wasn't the only one hungry.
As to some of the instructors now showing, that's mostly inside political crap and that was unfortunate. Substitute instructors could've had less teaching time - hey - I could've taught more too. That would have been fun.
As to the Symposium's goal, well, it was a first event and we Modern Arnis players seem to be as hard to get together as the various shotokan groups. Oh well. With all the hoopla and firing on it got prior to the event, I'm not surprised. American Kenpo didn't chill out for some time after Ed Parker died either. Modern Arnis will probably follow in the same footsteps.
Yours,
Dan Anderson
question for you, Dan, along with Hartman, Parsons and Hubbard, what is "pure modern arnis"? Guys, you have several threads going on right now, trying to deal with that definition. Please be specific.
Lunch was never mentioned in the pre-Symposium schedule. Why was that a surprise to anyone?
The bottom line on the Symposium is that it was held in spite of a lot of yelling and screaming. The Symposium was a major event in Modern Arnis and it was the first time that so many instructors who trained under the late Professor Presas came together at the same event to train, share ideas, techniques and tactics. The Symposium was recorded for history because it was history.
...now it is up to someone else to try to do the SECOND one, if they have the nerve and heart.
Originally posted by Dan Anderson
The teaching was varied and some strayed quite a bit from what RP taught and some hewed relatively close. Okay. Heck, you did some balintawak concepts one of your slots.
A question for you, Dan, along with Hartman, Parsons and Hubbard, what is "pure modern arnis"?
If there is no pure Modern Arnis, then where do we make the cut off. When is an art considered not Modern Arnis?
I have a simple formula that I follow:
What IS Modern Arnis
1. "Pure" Modern Arnis: The closest thing to Pure Modern Arnis that we have is anything that Professor taught as his art while he was alive. I am not talking about broad concepts, like "the flow," which in concept can be found in every art. I am talking about nuts and bolts movement and technique. Block-check-counter, the tapi-tapi presets, Anyos, 1-12 disarms, etc., etc. etc. Sure, the art remained progressive, but there were certian things that remained the same once Professor instituted it, regardless of where the progression went. These things that Professor had taught while he was alive do need to be preserved, in my opinion. This doesn't mean we can't expand upon these drills and moves, but we need to keep these in tact the basic "meat and potatoes" of our art.This, to me, is the closest thing we have to pure Modern Arnis.
I think that 98% of the WMAA cirriculum from white belt to black contains material that was taught by Professor while he was alive. Now I am sure there are others who preserve the art well, but I can't attest for all the other orgs. and schools out there.
2. "Hybrid" Modern Arnis: I believe that both during and after Professors life, instructors had gone outside what could be considered "pure" Modern Arnis to learn other things, and have incorporated what they have learned into their modern arnis. For example, I know that my Balintawak training has vastly changed the way I do Modern Arnis. I have integrated concepts, style, and techniques from Balintawak into my Modern Arnis. There is nothing wrong with this, however, this isn't "pure" Modern Arnis. Because I have added stylistic flairs from other systems, I would consider this more of a hybrid. However, Hybrid that it may be, since I still preserve what was originally taught to me, it still remains to be Modern Arnis.
3. "Progressed" Modern Arnis: This is where a student expands upon their "pure" Modern Arnis. It isn't exactly the same as what Professor taught them, but it has been evolved from what Professor has taught them. A good example of this would be Bram Franks knife system. Bram Franks roots are clearly Modern Arnis. When I did a few sessions of his knife work, it was clear to me that we both do the same art; Modern Arnis. However, he has progressed his art and redefined it to fit his needs, and the needs of those who he trains. This is not "pure" Remy Presas, but it is Modern Arnis just the same. It has been progressed from what was originally taught. And, the basic concepts and movements have been preserved as well.
So...What can be considered Modern Arnis? I believe that every school that can truely say they teach Modern Arnis keeps up with #1. If you can't maintain what you were originally taught by Professor, then your not doing the art, in my opinion. Most Orgs. and schools also have elements of #2 and #3, which is O.K., because to me they are still doing Modern Arnis. They are doing what Professor wanted by making it their own, and taking it into the direction that they wish to go.
What ISN"T Modern Arnis?
What isn't the art? I would say that if the students aren't at the very least preserving what they learned originally while Professor was alive, then they are not doing the art. So I believe that the explaination is simple. However, I think that there are a few additional things that are worth mentioning.
#1 If someone does another art, like Toaboda's Balintawak, or karate, or whatever, and they learn some Modern Arnis, and integrate it into their art, then to me they are not teaching Modern Arnis. They are teaching Toabodas Balintawak with Modern arnis mixed in, maybe, but this is not the same as teaching Modern Arnis.
Now, there is nothing wrong with doing this. Professor taught with the "art within your art" concept that you could use Modern Arnis to complement your other arts. It is O.K. to teach your art, TKD lets say, and integrate Modern Arnis into it. However, it is not O.K. in my opinion to claim to be teaching Modern Arnis, when it really is TKD with a few Modern Arnis drills mixed in. For you to be teaching the art, I think that the root of what you are teaching needs to be in the art itself.
So, if the base of what you teach at your school is Kenpo, but you have added some Modern Arnis Drills and concepts, then guess what? Your still teaching Kenpo. You can say, "We teach Kenpo, with some Modern Arnis integrated into our curriculum." You shouldn't say, "Sure...we teach Modern Arnis!" because this would be misleading.
#2 If you've evolved, or changed your Modern Arnis without at least preserving the original movements that were taught by Professor, then you are teaching something other then Modern Arnis.
And....So what if Professor evolved; he still kept certian things the same. Also, he was the Founder his art, so he could change it anytime he wanted too, and it was still the art. I think people lose sight of this, and instructors too often think that they have this same power. They don't. If you want this power, start your own art. If you want to teach Modern Arnis, however, then at the very least, you must maintain what you were taught by the man.
So, if your "Modern Arnis" bares little resemblence to what Professor was teaching at the time, then your Modern Arnis probably isn't REALLY Modern Arnis at all.
Sooooo.........
All and all, that is how I categorize things. Other opinions or suggestions are welcome!
You are correct, Dan, only Peter Vargas did not train under nor was he ranked by Professor. He trained under PG Tom Bolden in American Modern Arnis. I put him on the program specificly to show others how the ideas of Professor could be melded with ideas from several other sources and still produce a recognizable set of actions compatable with the teaching ideas of Professor. It worked out well and most of the people who did some training under Sifu Vargas were quite pleased with his presentations.
The teaching covered just about every era that Professor taught through from 1975 to 2000. All one has to do is check out the 1985-86 video series against the Black belt Series of 1998 and one can see some very clear differnces in approach by Professor himself!
Originally posted by Renegade
You're right. I taught a session on concepts of Bacon's Balintawak found in Remy's Modern Arnis. With the Sayoc material there is no connection between systems being taught, just how to do the 3 of 9 template. If connections where given that would have been one thing, but that was not the case.
Originally posted by DoctorB
Lunch was never mentioned in the pre-Symposium schedule. Why was that a surprise to anyone? We had too many people to get time slots for so there was a need to make choices.
Jerome Barber, Ed.D.
Originally posted by DoctorB
A question for you, Dan, along with Hartman, Parsons and Hubbard, what is "pure modern arnis"? Guys, you have several threads going on right now, trying to deal with that definition. Please be specific.
Originally posted by Renegade
I recently saw the symposium video. I would like to give my opinions on the video and the event. First of all I think that the overall quality of the video was good...
As for the symposium its self, I feel that the event fell short of its goal. Here are my reasons...
5. Was this a Modern Arnis event? No. Was this a FMA event where Modern Arnis was present? Yes. I will site a couple examples. Rich Curren taught a Sayoc knife drill. Daud Muhammad taught Sayoc knife techniques. Im not sure what Paul Martin was teaching during one of his sessions, but it wasnt MA. Tim Kashino seemed to be military baton and/or rifle techniques. A lot of material, but not a lot of Modern Arnis. Im not saying that the material was bad. What I am saying is that for a Modern Arnis seminar you would think that there would have been more Modern Arnis taught.
Originally posted by PAUL
Cool...I'll watch it then too, and I'll offer my review.
:asian:
1. On a couple of scenes the images were too dark to make out. This was due to the fact that the light source was coming from behind the instructors and not from behind the camera.
2. The other problem is that on several occasions the cameras man was shooting the backside of the instructors and didnt get a clear view of the action.
I didn't like the balance of time each instructor got. Some instructors got way more time then others, which seemed odd to me. According to Dan A's breakdown of the instruction time, Dawud Muhommad got an 1 hour and 34 minutes of instruction time on the DVD's, where Bram Frank only got 7.86 minutes, and Bolden got only 13.64 minutes. This seemed extremely unbalanced and unfair to me; not just to the instructors but to the purchasers of the DVD's. I would think that the purchasers would want more of a fair representation of what was being taught by each instructor.
So, I think that the instructors should have close to equal time on the DVD's. I am not sure why or how it happened this way; I am sure nothing malicious was intended. I just would have liked to have seen more of a balanced representation.