surefire flashlights...

[Jonathan Randall]

-I believe pocket sticks to be not that effective. I've stated why I believe that. Again they are minor force concentrators (I won't use "mutipliers anymore because that's not the case) that fit poorly into civilian SD strategy. Those here that believe in their effectiveness have argued with less.

If you had ever tried them on a meter, you would know that the effect is SO MAGNIFIED (concentrated) that you have to use far less power or you WILL break the meter.

Face it, you've been called on you assertions, and have come up short. Your position is indefensible but you dont' want to back off from it and lose face.

 

[Jonathan Randall]

-You have no way of knowing how hard you performed the strike other than speculation. How does a sharpie in hand allow you to reamin "18-20 inches" further away than without one?

Because you can extend it further from your body and even with just a minor waist twist, it will still have sufficient penetration to knock the wind out of someone. I'm next to my Wavemaster as I write this and the measurements are pretty close.

 

[RoninPimp]

Considering this is in the Ninjutsu area, I have to ask you Ronin, what training do you have in this art? I see you're BJJ brown belt, which is pretty decent. But how familiar are you with Ninjutsu? Seems that one should be somewhat familiar with those arts to comment on their techniques.

-I posted on this thread because it popped up from clicking the "New Posts" button. I haven't trained in Ninjitsu, but it doesn't have a monopoly on pocket stick techniques.

 

[Apollo]

-I believe pocket sticks to be not that effective. I've stated why I believe that. Again they are minor force concentrators (I won't use "mutipliers anymore because that's not the case) that fit poorly into civilian SD strategy. Those here that believe in their effectiveness have argued with less.

I don't believe sport fighting is effective in the street, but I still enter tournaments to test my one on one skills in a controlled environment. You haven't tested them, but insist you believe they don't work. Hey, the Chinese at one time believed that their Iron Shirt technique would protect them from bullets. They were wrong.

 

[RoninPimp]

If you had ever tried them on a meter, you would know that the effect is SO MAGNIFIED (concentrated) that you have to use far less power or you WILL break the meter.

Face it, you've been called on you assertions, and have come put short. Your position is indefensible but you dont' want to back off from it and lose face.

-It will not "magnify" the force. The force rains the same, only concentrated into a smaller area. My assertions remain valid. Even if you don't like them.

 

[Apollo]

-I posted on this thread because it popped up from clicking the "New Posts" button. I haven't trained in Ninjitsu, but it doesn't have a monopoly on pocket stick techniques.

No, but this was initially about flash lights. Seems we've drifted things quite a bit.

 

[Apollo]

-It will not "magnify" the force. The force rains the same, only concentrated into a smaller area. My assertions remain valid. Even if you don't like them.

He's tried them. You haven't. I'll go with the guy who has tested things out rather than guessing at them.

 

[RoninPimp]

I don't believe sport fighting is effective in the street, but I still enter tournaments to test my one on one skills in a controlled environment. You haven't tested them, but insist you believe they don't work. Hey, the Chinese at one time believed that their Iron Shirt technique would protect them from bullets. They were wrong.

-I have played with them. I have not sparred full contact with them. Are you saying you have sparred full contact with them to prove their effectiveness?

 

[Jonathan Randall]

-It will not "magnify" the force. The force rains the same, only concentrated into a smaller area. My assertions remain valid. Even if you don't like them.

By concentrating the force into a smaller area, the increased penetration WILL magnify the effect, or force, of the strike.

Your assertion was that they are not useful in self-defence and that they will not increase a person's ability to stop an attacker. You have stated that you don't think a pressure point strike would knock you out or stop you - just bruise or bloody you. Technopunk offered for you to take a strike to a "pressure point" with a SD stick, and you decline. Why? Because, IMO, you know that he is right.

How do I (or you, for that matter) know if your assertions are valid? You won't test them. I have - on a meter, on a Wavemaster and on a person. Again, I call BULLSHIDO.

 

[RoninPimp]

Because you can extend it further from your body and even with just a minor waist twist, it will still have sufficient penetration to knock the wind out of someone. I'm next to my Wavemaster as I write this and the measurements are pretty close.

-That extension has nothing to do with a sharpie. What measurements?

 

[Apollo]

-I have played with them. I have not sparred full contact with them. Are you saying you have sparred full contact with them to prove their effectiveness?

I don't play patty cake "karaty". I've spent some time sucking ice chips, nursing strains and sprains, cuts and bruises and a few dislocations from my training. So, yes, I have gone 'full contact', with control. One doesn't need to land a disabling or killing blow to prove it would be effective when one understands the biology behind things.

 

[RoninPimp]

By concentrating the force into a smaller area, the increased penetration WILL magnify the effect, or force, of the strike.

Your assertion was that they are not useful in self-defence and that they will not increase a person's ability to stop an attacker. You have stated that you don't think a pressure point strike would knock you out or stop you - just bruise or bloody you. Technopunk offered for you to take a strike to a "pressure point" with a SD stick, and you decline. Why? Because, IMO, you know that he is right.

How do I know if you assertions are valid? You won't test them. Again, I call BULLSHIDO.

-They will NOT magnify the force. They will concetrate the same force into a smaller area. They will potentionally damage the immidiate area more. That may or may not magnify the effect. Tecknopunk's offer is pure strawman. Taking a blow like that does not prove their effectiveness in a SD situation.

 

[Jonathan Randall]

-That extension has nothing to do with a sharpie. What measurements?

Yes it does. The increased penetration of the top allows a strike to be effective even when not thrown close in, such as an uppercut would have to be. Again, I don't say to throw an uppercut to the solar plexus, just that I can get the penetration with a stick to a vital point that would otherwise require a rear hand empty hand strike of that type (uppercut, shovel hook, etc.).

Pounds per square inch.

 

[Apollo]

-They will NOT magnify the force. They will concetrate the same force into a smaller area. They will potentionally damage the immidiate area more. That may or may not magnify the effect. Tecknopunk's offer is pure strawman. Taking a blow like that does not prove their effectiveness in a SD situation.

So, do it in a test SD situation. If it works in a controled training situation it'll work on the street right?

Really, I don't understand why you seem so closed minded here. You "believe" but you haven't really "felt". To feel is to believe.

 

[RoninPimp]

I don't play patty cake "karaty". I've spent some time sucking ice chips, nursing strains and sprains, cuts and bruises and a few dislocations from my training. So, yes, I have gone 'full contact', with control. One doesn't need to land a disabling or killing blow to prove it would be effective when one understands the biology behind things.

-And you believe the increased effect from a pocket stick could be the deciding factor in an SD situation?

 

[RoninPimp]

Yes it does. The increased penetration of the top allows a strike to be effective even when not thrown close in, such as an uppercut would have to be. Again, I don't say to throw an uppercut to the solar plexus, just that I can get the penetration with a stick to a vital point that would otherwise require a rear hand empty hand strike of that type (uppercut, shovel hook, etc.).

-You can't be serious. It is physically impossible for a 6" weapon to extend your reach 18"-20".

 

[RoninPimp]

So, do it in a test SD situation. If it works in a controled training situation it'll work on the street right?

Really, I don't understand why you seem so closed minded here. You "believe" but you haven't really "felt". To feel is to believe.

-I'm not aguing they won't hurt. Or that they won't cause injury. I'm arguing if you can beat the BG with one, you could without one.

 

[Apollo]

-And you believe the increased effect from a pocket stick could be the deciding factor in an SD situation?

-I'm not aguing they won't hurt. Or that they won't cause injury. I'm arguing if you can beat the BG with one, you could without one.

1- Yes.
2- Maybe, but used correctly, it can add to the effectiveness of technique.

 

[Apollo]

-You can't be serious. It is physically impossible for a 6" weapon to extend your reach 18"-20".

Physically, yes. But, thats only if things only move in a straight line from zero.

 

[RoninPimp]

1- Yes.
2- Maybe, but used correctly, it can add to the effectiveness of technique.

-That's where we'll have to agree to disagree. While it certainly possible, it is very unlikely imo to be the deciding factor.