Supreme Court starts to hear "Obama Care" law today

[dancingalone]

What I do believe is that where legislation is concerned, the President has very little direct control over what ends up on his desk next to the ceremonial pen.

I don't necessarily buy that. Powerful and influential presidents can get what they want. See FDR. See Teddy Roosevelt. Even see Ronald Reagan to an extent. Obama had majorities in both houses of Congress. If he failed to get a bill in the shape he wanted, that falls on his lap too.

And so, to give Congress a pass on a product they have created is simplistic.

I'm not giving them a pass on this. Far from it.

And as I've said, even calling it Obamacare is a nod to partisanship and absolves the members of Congress of their part in the process, both Democrat and Republican.

The same is true for all legislation. Another good example is the Patriot Act, a deplorable piece of flawed legislation. While Bush 43 certainly bears some of the responsibility, the lion's share falls, in my opinion, squarely on Congress. They drafted the bloody bill and passed it through both the House and the Senate.

Bob Hubbard said, "I don't blame him. I blame all of them." I agree with this, but as I said before, it rings hollow in light of the lambasting of Obama that immediately precedes it.

You guys. I'm not saying anything radical here. In fact, I would bet I'm not saying anything that hasn't been said by you guys yourselves in other threads on other bills.

I don't really see what the big deal here is. No one is forgetting about Congress' role in this. Obama as the president gets saddled with a big part of the burden and blame. It comes along with the bully pulpit and it's fair considering he chose to make healthcare 'reform' the centerpiece of his first two years in office. He SHOULD get some of the backlash. It's well deserved.

 

[Big Don]

And as I've said, even calling it Obamacare is a nod to partisanship and absolves the members of Congress of their part in the process, both Democrat and Republican.

The Obama campaign begs to differ...
I can't resize?! The pictured shirt is for someone with a freakishly long torso...

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Transparency, not.

Steve, Obama's own people call it "Obamacare".
Video from reputable sources where he makes promises, then waffles before taking responsibility for the mess.

How are we lambasting him if he's taken the blame on himself and admits they broke their promises?


Oh, also the head of CSPAN's reportedly said they never were contacted about airing the health care negotiations. Haven't confirmed that yet.



So, partisan bill, written by lobbyists, in secret, behind closed doors, with lots of deal making, passed on party lines, late at night, right before an election, with most voting having never read the bill, with little 'wtf?' clauses being found all the time and removed prior to the vote, with many of those voting for it saying they have no idea if it was Constitutional, and that they weren't concerned about that anyway.

And some folks wonder why it's in the Supreme Courts hands now?


And the Head attorney for the Administration basically admits he too doesn't know if it's Constitutional in his closing remarks?


Really?

I mean....Really?

These are the best people we can find to run the country? I think -WE- could do a better job.

 

[Steve]

Ugh. Okay. I've said several times that my point isn't to suggest that the president is without blame.

You know what? Never mind. I've made two points. I think that they're very clear. If you guys disagree, that's okay. But I'll be a little disappointed in you if you later suggest that the congress is somehow responsible for legislation again, unless you acknowledge at that time that I was right in this thread and you were wrong.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Steve, I also said Congress is also to blame.

How many GOP votes did the bill get? I forget the exact vote count from both houses but I am pretty sure it got almost none. A bill this major, passes by 1 party with the other pretty much told "screw you". (And yes I'd feel the same way regardless of party).


(ok, I looked it up.)

Senate: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/special/politics/votes/senate/senatehealthcare/index.html
Dem - 58 Yes 0 No
GOP - 0 Yes 39 No

House: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/special/politics/votes/house/healthcare/
Dem - 219 Yes 39 No
GOP - 1 Yes 176 No

House: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/special/politics/votes/house/finalhealthcare/
Dem - 219 Yes 34 No
GOP - 0 Yes 178 No


Back to Obama, well,

The Heritage Foundation has been credited with introducing the concept of the individual mandate during the debate over Hillary Clinton’s healthcare reform almost 20 years ago, but has since come to oppose it. It is not the only group that has changed sides on the issue: Obama slammed then-rival Hillary Clinton over the mandate on the campaign trail.
“We still don’t know how Sen. Clinton intends to enforce a mandate … you can have a situation, which we are seeing right now in the state of Massachusetts, where people are being fined for not having purchased health care but choose to accept the fine because they still can’t afford it, even with the subsidies,” Obama said. “They are then worse off: They then have no health care, and are paying a fine above and beyond that.”

Yet that same mandate idea, oh I'm sorry, I mean the "personal responsibility clause" (as they are now calling it after being spanked in 3 days of court hearings) was the key part of what he signed. http://freebeacon.com/white-house-tries-to-rebrand-mandate/

They are also calling a bill than as passed into law received -0- votes from the opposition "bi-partisan". I guess under their logic I'm bi-sexual because I only like women. :rofl:

So what we got was a bill, written by lobbyists, fast tracked through hearings, strong armed by then Speaker Pelosi, full of empty promises, passed unread by most of those voting on it, on straight party lines, with little public oversight, that formed a major shift in liberty and reorganized government control of our lives.

Personally Steve, I think the lot of them should be lined up against a wall and shot as traitors for this mess.
But I'm sure -their- health plans don't cover vitamin L. /sarcasm