Sup Gee Sao

[Jake104]

This is why I like to evolve the "Tan/punch" into "rhino horn" that both arms are Tan and both arms are punch. It works as a wedge, integrate both offense and defense as one move, and be able to deal with opponent's punches from both directions.

Exactly. IMO A big misconception in martial arts is that you can somehow block everything and avoid being hit. That's a dangerous mentality to have.

Also using the indoor to attack is dangerous with a good grappler it would be better aagain to not fight him like your picture..it would better smarter to move around hin and strile at diferent angles having him gusssing when the next attack is going to be..

Not trying to beat you up here on this stuff. But good grapplers angle also. They are going to track your movements and take you down. So again the smaller and more direct your movements are. The less you give them to work with. A good grappler will seize his opportunity to throw or takedown once you start to move. So a downside of being on the outside is the movements tend to be larger than in the inside.. But different strokes for different folks. This is just my experience.

 

[Marnetmar]

Awesome insight, but I thought SGS was the name for that snake hand thing mainland styles like to do?

 

[wckf92]

Agree that you have to deal with both of your opponent's arms. But he also has to deal with both of your arms too. One has no advantage over the other.

If you think that you are

- better than your opponent, you attack him through his front door (aggressive approach).
- equal or less skill than your opponent, you attack him through his side door (conservative approach).

From a wrestler point of view, "It's better to be inside than to be outside". This is why I prefer to move in through the front door. Instead of trying to get a lucky punch from the side door, I'll commit myself and deal with my opponent's both arms ASAP. This way, either I win, or I lose, there won't be anything in between.

Agree! One should have even amount of skill to do both ("front" and "side" door methods)...however, generally speaking one must be very aggressive when dealing with the front door approach. It is sometimes called crashing in the door wing chun. To do the side door approach...your footwork must be trained very well (obviously).

 

[wckf92]

But I think there is a difference between moving around someone and making them move around you, wouldn't you agree?

Oh heck yeah!!! One takes a lot more time than the other. And as those critical nano-seconds are ticking by...there may not be enough time for moving around someone. But making them move/turn around you is more economical if you can pull it off.

 

[Danny T]

...Also I don't see how mass or strength changes from outside to inside. Structure is structure? Mass is mass?

It doesn't.
The opponent's as well as yours. If his mass and structure is greater than yours you will be at smashed. It is why we also have footwork associated within maintaining our structure.

 

[KPM]

Agree that you have to deal with both of your opponent's arms. But he also has to deal with both of your arms too. One has no advantage over the other.

---Which is why you go to the side door. Because you DO have an advantage! And granted, you may not always have the opportunity to start there. But when you can, it is to your advantage to work from there.

From a wrestler point of view, "It's better to be inside than to be outside". This is why I prefer to move in through the front door. Instead of trying to get a lucky punch from the side door, I'll commit myself and deal with my opponent's both arms ASAP. This way, either I win, or I lose, there won't be anything in between.

---What do mean "get a lucky punch"? Working from the side door is no different than working from the front door when it comes to the ability to use both arms to strike the opponent. Its actually easier to hit him from the side door than the front door because you only have to worry about one of his arms.

 

[KPM]

In a fight you'll have to take what you get, inside or outside. There won't be time to transition from in or out or vice versa. .

Why do you say that? A fight often ends up in a "face off." If I am ready and facing my opponent I have a choice to go up the center or angle off to the side. All it takes is good footwork.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

there may not be enough time for moving around someone.

To drag your opponents leading arm in circle and move toward his side door is an excellent strategy.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

If I am ready and facing my opponent I have a choice to go up the center or angle off to the side. All it takes is good footwork.

Agree that if you truly want to enter through your opponent's "front door", it's not hard to do.

IMO, all it takes is which direction that your arm will move. If both of your hands are in your center line, when your opponent punches, if you just move your

- left Tan Shou to your left to deal with the right punch,
- right Tan Shou to your right to deal with the left punch,

you will enter your opponent's "front door". The general MA term for this is called "分手 (Fen Shou) - separate hands" that you separate your opponent's arms from inside out.

 

[Jake104]

Why do you say that? A fight often ends up in a "face off." If I am ready and facing my opponent I have a choice to go up the center or angle off to the side. All it takes is good footwork.

I say this because even through a fight might end up in a face off. What if your opponent doesn't cooperate and allow time for your fancy footwork. He tracks you and if he's a wrestler he "turns the corner"? Then what?

So let's say you throw an angle off attack? So does he, but with a better angle. He cuts your angle and now your on the inside. So whatever you thought your game plan was from an angled "side door" is now going to change to "front door". So do you try and go back to the side? Or do fight from where ever you end up? The front door/ inside doesn't necessarily mean straight in or squared shoulder to shoulder two arms vs two arms. I train to react. I let my training partners/brothers/friends/strangers off the street attack me anyway they want. Then I react. I still drill certain skills and practice entries. But my favorite training is letting people just attack and i react.

 

[Jake104]

Here KPM

Pretty much sums up what I'm saying. There's a little more to it that I'm learning. But Alan nails it.

 

[Jake104]

Oh heck yeah!!! One takes a lot more time than the other. And as those critical nano-seconds are ticking by...there may not be enough time for moving around someone. But making them move/turn around you is more economical if you can pull it off.

Well yeah, that the real skill. But there are tricks that help make someone move where you want. Like disruption and pain compliance .

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

my favorite training is letting people just attack and i react.

My favor training is always

- I attack my opponent.
- Let my opponent to react,
- I then react to his reaction.

Some Karate guy said,

- If you punch me, I'll move back.
- If you punch me again, I'll move back again.
- If you punch me the 3rd time, I'll move back the 3rd time.

If you dare to punch me again, I'll jump back in and eat you alive.

I may not move back 3 times but I like his strategy that you only move back and not react to your opponent's attack. The reason is you may not have decided whether you want to take that fight or not. The moment that you have decide to take that fight, you attack. The advantage of this approach is "it gives you more time to think".

 

[Jake104]

Agree that you have to deal with both of your opponent's arms. But he also has to deal with both of your arms too. One has no advantage over the other.

---Which is why you go to the side door. Because you DO have an advantage! And granted, you may not always have the opportunity to start there. But when you can, it is to your advantage to work from

Again the front door does not mean you have two arms vs two arms. I can come in your front door overhook an arm and shift slightly then it's 2 vs 1 1/2 arms. Because as I over hooked and turned I broke your elbow or dislocated a shoulder. Wow maybe there's a reason grapplers like the inside also? I know the secret form of bui jitsu

 

[Jake104]

My favor training is always

- I attack my opponent.
- Let my opponent to react,
- I then react to his reaction.

Some Karate guy said,

- If you punch me, I'll move back.
- If you punch me again, I'll move back again.
- If you punch me the 3rd time, I'll move back the 3rd time.

If you dare to punch me again, I'll jump back in and eat you alive. I may not move back 3 times but I like his

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Again the front door does not mean you have two arms vs two arms. I can come in your front door overhook an arm and shift slightly then it's 2 vs 1 1/2 arms. Because as I over hooked and turned I broke your elbow or dislocated a shoulder. Wow maybe there's a reason grapplers like the inside also? I do bui jitsu

When you use under hook or over hook on one of your opponent's shoulders, you can pretty much ignore his other arm. You can even use both arms to deal with his one shoulder.

Here is an example.

 

[Jake104]

When you use under hook or over hook on one of your opponent's shoulders, you can pretty much ignore his other arm. You can even use both arms to deal with his one shoulder.

Here is an example.

Exactly! You must know secret bui jitsu form too! Haha!

 

[Jake104]

When you use under hook or over hook on one of your opponent's shoulders, you can pretty much ignore his other arm. You can even use both arms to deal with his one shoulder.

Here is an example.

Wow look the grappler gets an angle too.How come he doesn't stand in the same place and eat a sandwich like most Striker vs grappling videos?

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Wow look the grappler gets an angle too.How come he doesn't stand in the same place and eat a sandwich like most Striker vs grappling videos?

Because both "stealing step" and "wheeling step" are wrestler's must train footwork.

You want to

- take over your opponent's position, and
- let your opponent to fall right at your original position.

In order to do so, you will need to move yourself out of your opponent's moving path (that you guide him into), give him all the space that he will need, so he can "fall" properly (not fall on top of you).

 

[geezer]

Here KPM

Pretty much sums up what I'm saying. There's a little more to it that I'm learning. But Alan nails it.

You beat me to it. Yesterday, purely by chance I was watching this same clip over on Youtube and thinking about how I should post it on this thread. Alan Orr's adaptation of WC would fit very well with DTE.