So I've seen the Suio Ryu website in Anaheim CA, which is my home town, and I like what I see very much. My question is, with this particular art and dojo, cause some schools may not train in one area or another as much as another school may, is there a Jujutsu curriculum. Most of the info I read, and videos I see are weapons. Thanks !!!
Suio Ryu Iai Kenpo
- Thread starter Scout
- Start date
There would be little if any at all in the named art per se, but it's not uncommon to see an empty-hand system offered alongside it (as the samurai would have learned both swordsmanship and some empty-hand defense). In classical Japanese arts there is usually an overarching name for the family of arts and then specific names like this for each particular methodology within it--this is the latter, it seems. So, check carefully if that's what you want--I don't see any reason to expect you'd get more than an isolated "by the way, this could be interpreted empty-hand like this" every now and again rather than dedicated empty-hand training. Looks like fun stuff though!
Aiki Lee
Master of Arts
Kogusoku is mention, which is like jujutsu for the most part. It does employ the use of some minor weapons during grappling, but many of the tactics and strategies should translate into unarmed fighting. It looks very interesting, and I would definitely give it a try unless you are looking for something that specifies in more unarmed technical skills.
To be honest I kind of am, or was looking for something that may have a little more unarmed emphases. But that doesn't mean I wont do an art that doesn't emphases it to my liking. That is why Shinkendo caught my attention. You can take Iaido, or Aikibujutsu apart or together, so you can control of how much of one or the other you want more. I'm just not sure about the Aikibujutsu part, havent made up my mind about it.......so I press on. Also I really like the idea of a traced lineage, which Shinkendo I think is lacking. I don't know what sword art it is, I think he learned a bunch and combined them to his, and Aikido seems to be the kind of "filler" art that goes along with any "samurai" art now a days. Please don't get me wrong, I do not speak ill of any of these arts, this just seems to be my findings thus far in my search.
Aiki Lee
Master of Arts
If you are looking specifically for an old samurai art with a traceable lineage that has a lot of jujutsu, I would seek out the Takenouchi ryu. It is considered to be the oldest jujutsu system still practiced. If you can't find that then I'd look into the Shinkendo thing. There are a few things I question about them, but I'm not a skilled enough swordsman to know if the things they are doing are specific to the lineages this Obata guy studied. I just watched his tameshigiri and thought it was off, but maybe there are reasons for his wide swings I am not familar with. I don't see a whole lot of major problems with the photos and videos for the most part so I believe it is worth checking out.
I see in your profile that you study/have studied Wing Chun; any reason you are switching to a Japanese art?
I see in your profile that you study/have studied Wing Chun; any reason you are switching to a Japanese art?
Kusarigama
Yellow Belt
The proper way to ask questions is not on an open forum.
The Dojo in Anaheim is close by. Why not pay a visit and observe a class?
If our Tradition speaks to your heart you will know it.
If it doesn't then look elsewhere.
Well,that is kind of why the forum is here--for people to discuss things. But I hope all works out well! Is there an open-hand tradition within the system?
Thank you, I will definatley check that art out! Well yes I did study Wing Chun and loved it. I found it was lacking for me, not in a martial way, but a life way, if you will. The Japanese arts just speak to me. I find them to be more about a way of life than a skill set, that's all, I would recommend WC to any and everyone!
I do apologize If you feel I was putting any particular art or dojo on blast, this was not my intention. That being said this is an open forum and I wanted to hear from someone from that particular dojo and didn't know who was, and then you came :uhyeah:. I would go to the dojo if I could, but as luck would have it I'm in Afghanistan :wuguns: which is why I'm asking so many questions about different arts, I'm not there to visit. I'm looking for a new art that like you said "speaks to me". Forgive me, but I am relying on my martial brothers and sisters here to help me out a little bit given the circumstance.
pgsmith
Master of Arts
Well Britt,
Since you have responded to his questions, why not make a bit more of a response so the rest of the folks know a bit more about it? I've discussed various throws and such with Brian over beer, but we never got into whether this was stuff that he learned through Suio ryu or not. So do you guys practice the kogusoku much, or is it purely weapons?
Kusarigama
Yellow Belt
The Kogusoku techniques are practiced by the members of the Tradition here in the United States.
Perhaps you could share a little bit about your system for those of us who don't live in Anaheim?
Kusarigama
Yellow Belt
There are locations outside of Anaheim, California.
San Francisco, California
San Diego, California
Omaha, Nebraska
Columbus, Ohio
Rhode Island.
This article does far better job of answering your questions than anything I could attempt.
http://suioryu-usa.org/bucreates.html
Chris Parker
Grandmaster
Thanks for that, Britt. If you don't mind, I'd like to attempt to flesh things out (just a bit) for the guys reading... other than Paul (pgsmith), none are Koryu practitioners, so might not quite understand why you're answering the way you are, and honestly, I feel that Scout (the OP) could benefit from having an understanding of what it is you train in.
As indicated in the link that Britt supplied, Suio Ryu is a Koryu (old school) system of martial arts, with the primary focus being on the usage of the sword, most commonly in Iai (sword drawing). However, similar to many other Koryu systems, it has a number of other aspects, which include a form of grappling in light armour known as Kogusoku (literally "small set [of armour/weapons]"), a term also found in arts such as Araki Ryu, Takenouchi Ryu, Sosuishi Ryu etc, as well as pole-arms, and other methods. Additionally, another Ryu is taught alongside Suio Ryu, which is Fukuhara-ha Masaki Ryu Kusarijutsu, a system of a small number of chain weapons, most notably kusari fundo/manriki gusari and kusari gama. This has been since the art was passed to the 9th Soke (head of the Ryu) of Suio Ryu. There are other branches of Masaki Ryu still in existence.
The methods of Suio Ryu are unique and incredibly well designed, with the Ryu taking a very unusual approach to the design of their kata, one which ensures that there is a high degree of reality in their performance. It is a very well respected Ryu-ha, and for very good reason.
But the thing is, I really don't think it, or anything like it, is what our OP is looking for. From everything I've come across, the OP is looking for an (ideally) unarmed Jujutsu approach... but I'm not sure that he really knows what that is in this sense. The feeling I get is that he's after a more modern approach, more in line with BJJ, but with a focus on self defence (weapon defence etc). What has been asked about, though, are more traditional methods, in the form of X-Kan training, and here Suio Ryu (Koryu) training. And, much though I love Takenouchi Ryu, Himura, it was simply not a viable art to bring up. The only schools for the Ryu outside of Japan are for one of the three branches (Bitchu-den Takeuchi Ryu), and are in Hawaii, Canada, and the UK.
But back to what's really being asked about.
This Ryu is Koryu. And that means something. Before we go too much further with asking about these types of systems, I'd recommend reading the following thread, as well as the articles linked within:
http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php/93854-The-purpose-of-the-ryu
Anything else, just ask, and I hope I haven't stepped on your toes, Britt.
As indicated in the link that Britt supplied, Suio Ryu is a Koryu (old school) system of martial arts, with the primary focus being on the usage of the sword, most commonly in Iai (sword drawing). However, similar to many other Koryu systems, it has a number of other aspects, which include a form of grappling in light armour known as Kogusoku (literally "small set [of armour/weapons]"), a term also found in arts such as Araki Ryu, Takenouchi Ryu, Sosuishi Ryu etc, as well as pole-arms, and other methods. Additionally, another Ryu is taught alongside Suio Ryu, which is Fukuhara-ha Masaki Ryu Kusarijutsu, a system of a small number of chain weapons, most notably kusari fundo/manriki gusari and kusari gama. This has been since the art was passed to the 9th Soke (head of the Ryu) of Suio Ryu. There are other branches of Masaki Ryu still in existence.
The methods of Suio Ryu are unique and incredibly well designed, with the Ryu taking a very unusual approach to the design of their kata, one which ensures that there is a high degree of reality in their performance. It is a very well respected Ryu-ha, and for very good reason.
But the thing is, I really don't think it, or anything like it, is what our OP is looking for. From everything I've come across, the OP is looking for an (ideally) unarmed Jujutsu approach... but I'm not sure that he really knows what that is in this sense. The feeling I get is that he's after a more modern approach, more in line with BJJ, but with a focus on self defence (weapon defence etc). What has been asked about, though, are more traditional methods, in the form of X-Kan training, and here Suio Ryu (Koryu) training. And, much though I love Takenouchi Ryu, Himura, it was simply not a viable art to bring up. The only schools for the Ryu outside of Japan are for one of the three branches (Bitchu-den Takeuchi Ryu), and are in Hawaii, Canada, and the UK.
But back to what's really being asked about.
This Ryu is Koryu. And that means something. Before we go too much further with asking about these types of systems, I'd recommend reading the following thread, as well as the articles linked within:
http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php/93854-The-purpose-of-the-ryu
Anything else, just ask, and I hope I haven't stepped on your toes, Britt.
Bradford Pomeroy
White Belt
Hi Scout.
To answer your question, there is not a jujutsu curriculum within Suio-ryu. As already mentioned, there is kogusoku; however, the context is rather unlike a bulk of jujustu practiced today. In kogusoku, the emphasis is on grappling in light/semi-armor and often includes a weapon. As someone who has had prior grappling experience before training in Suio-ryu, I can confirm that it is very different. At least different than something you would experience from let's say Daito-ryu. Kogusoku (at least in SR) is still very weapon-centric.
So if grappling is something that is paramount to you and your training, you might want to check out other schools and/or systems. On the other hand, there is a great deal of depth to Suio-ryu and if you liked what you saw, I hope you do get the opportunity to visit the good folks at the Anaheim school. As mentioned, it has to be experienced and you may very well enjoy it and see some value in exploring that path. I see that you are currently far from any possible position to do so, so please allow me to express my wish for you a safe journey and swift return home.
Best Regards,
Bradford Pomeroy
水鷗流 居合 剣法
Suiō-ryū Iai Kenpō
San Diego Shibu
To answer your question, there is not a jujutsu curriculum within Suio-ryu. As already mentioned, there is kogusoku; however, the context is rather unlike a bulk of jujustu practiced today. In kogusoku, the emphasis is on grappling in light/semi-armor and often includes a weapon. As someone who has had prior grappling experience before training in Suio-ryu, I can confirm that it is very different. At least different than something you would experience from let's say Daito-ryu. Kogusoku (at least in SR) is still very weapon-centric.
So if grappling is something that is paramount to you and your training, you might want to check out other schools and/or systems. On the other hand, there is a great deal of depth to Suio-ryu and if you liked what you saw, I hope you do get the opportunity to visit the good folks at the Anaheim school. As mentioned, it has to be experienced and you may very well enjoy it and see some value in exploring that path. I see that you are currently far from any possible position to do so, so please allow me to express my wish for you a safe journey and swift return home.
Best Regards,
Bradford Pomeroy
水鷗流 居合 剣法
Suiō-ryū Iai Kenpō
San Diego Shibu
