I had mentioned Lee and Lundgren because I believe Lee, but definitely Lundgren specifically stated that they did "body building", though you are correct: I am referring to it in the general sense, not as the competitive sense.
Roids and HGH are not specific to body building, but body building is certainly the most famous for it. Lots of unhealthy practices in competition body building. Last muscle fitness mag I picked up was good for an afternoon of, frankly puzzlement. Years back when I followed it and regularly read Muscle Fitness, the contestants all looked like Greek sculpture. Now? They look like Bane from the last Burton era Batman flick. Honestly, it made me wonder if they know how they really look.
One can build their body through weight lifting and strength training. But body-building the competitive activity is distinct. One is form, the other is function.
Just a clarification: Lee and Lungren were not body builders, but did use of isolation training to sculpt their bodies. Lee was actually quite pronounced for the era (early seventies) for a guy who wasn't a pro body builder.
Once again, I think we're getting mixed up here. "Sculpting" in order to be successful in body building competitions can actually lead to an illusion of health that isn't there. Personally, I don't doubt that many of the training techniques are very good. It's the goal that's suspect... the body image.
First, on a practical level "drugs" are really just "supplements" that are illegal. But that's a different discussion. GSP and everyone of those guys takes supplements to aid in everything from lean muscle development to explosive power to metabolic stimulants and everything in between. Whether or not they cycle HGH in combination with some kind of steroid cocktail, they are all taking something.
Absolutely. I've never taken a position that they don't all use some kind of supplements. I was specifically commenting on your assertion that if they don't cycle anabolic steroids, they're just relying on good old fashioned hard work and sweat. You said, "Unless you take drugs, you have to burn the fat the hard way, and basically spend hours circuit training, or jogging, which means natural bodybuilders have very high endurance."
No problem. I thought about those guys, but really was trying to show an example of the fundamental difference between strength training and bodybuilding. Couture was a good example, in my opinion, specifically because you can see that in spite of a developed physique and low body fat, he would never win any kind of bodybuilding competition because he hasn't pursued that aesthetic ideal.
I'm totally cool with this. As you're using the term, I can see your point.
I figured that was the case. Again, and I've said it before, I don't think that you, Draven Daniel or I are saying anything too different. I just think we're getting signals crossed based upon subtle differences in how we're using specific terms.
That's a gross oversimplification of the subject. They're ALL taking supplements that help with every aspect of their training. But even "natural" bodybuilders take supplements to maximize their training performance. The point I was making is that there is a fundamental distinction between the bodybuilder and someone like GSP or Couture, and it isn't steroids. The difference between Couture and a professional bodybuilder is that Couture is working specifically to increase functional strength while a bodybuilder is focusing on acheiving an aesthetic "ideal" often at odds with functional performance.
And once again, I'm less concerned with whether we're using the term "sculpting" or "bodybuilding" or whatever as long as we all understand what is meant. I believe that the crux of the last 10 posts in this thread is in getting hung up on semantics. So, ultimately, if you disagree with me, it's all good... as long as you understand what I'm saying and I understand what you're saying.
Originally Posted by stevebjj
Bodybuilders often look strong, but aren't. As with most things, bodybuilding as a sport has a very specific aesthetic.
[Quote from me earlier post]
Sarcoplasmic hypertrophy is to blame. They dont have as much real world strength as the strength guys lifting trucks.
The guys lifting trucks do have huge muscles, but with big guts and layers of fat engulfing their huge muscles. Obviously, it doesnt look appealing, but if they burned the fat, they would look at the same beastly level as a bodybuilder, but with realistic relations to strength.
http://www.mmamania.com/2010/3/16/1375974/mma-quick-quote-worlds-strongest
Five-time World's Strongest Man, Mariusz Pudzianowski, tells Fighter's Only that he's signed on to face former UFC Heavyweight Champion Tim Sylvia at the upcoming Moosin event on April 23 in Worcester -- despite already being booked to fight for Polish promotion KSW on May 7.
Bolded part is what I meant by sculpting.
