Street Jitsu! Punch Block Series for Self Defense

[Juany118]

you make a good case, but seems to ignore two problems.
one) troops are effectively brain washed to follow orders no matter how dangerous the situation might be, so its less removing fear more doing it anyway, not least that through out history killing your own soldiers who refuse to follow orders has been a method of control.

second. The whole MA works thing can only be said to be true, if deveopong MA skills also guarantee a high,standard of physical fitness.

that true of soldiers, but not at all a guarantee with a MA school, where it seems many reach high levels with out deveoping a matching degree of fitness.

so the whole MA training works as it works in armies, is based on a false premise

First I think you are stretching out the premise a bit. People are talking about the training of a skill set, and the Military analogy is fairly close there. Your idea of "killing you own soldiers who refuse..." has been gone for well over a century though (outside the dramatic moments of Cinema.) there really were a number of strawman arguments in that post.

As for the fitness bit that has to do with training method. Example my school. During the week we have the "skills classes" which includes sparring, pressure testing necessary for those skills to work in real practice. If you are going to be in a school where there is regular full on sparring then you will get fit, even if it requires you to put in work on your own time. That said my school, and at least one other in my area have at least one block of time a week where fitness is the goal. My school, on Saturdays, has a "conditioning class" think a Crossfit designed around the fundamentals of Traditional Wing Chun and Inosanto Kali. As an example...

start at opposite ends of a large space in the push up position> wait for command and then do X push-ups> Stand and sprint to middle and meet your partner where sticks lie> pick them up and do sinawali or 10 count sumbrada> Wait for the call of break > sprint back to start position and drop to the push-up position.

Now the above may be uncommon for a TMA school, but I see this becoming more common now with the emergence of MMA gyms becoming popular because the TMA's schools wish to remain competitive. They may make these conditioning classes "optional" but the option is there.

That said, I am a damn skinny guy who is on the down hill slope to 50 (you can sorta see the skinny in my profile pic). I try to stay fit but the 20 and 30 somethings I deal with often work out in the gym everyday because they are in and out of jail and it is a "thing" for them to stay very fit with in their peer group, so they are more fit (no job and family allows for more gym time). What has it so I can take them down even though they are more fit? My skill set.

 

[drop bear]

To the first point, there's documented evidence that soldiers were (and still are, though to a lesser extent) actually reluctant to fire. One study I read (I think it referred to the Vietnam war) said a large number (far more than half) of the soldiers surveyed admitted (in anonymous interviews) to having purposely fired their guns in a harmless direction (well over the heads of enemies, for instance).

To the second point, a high level of fitness is not necessary to defend for 10-30 seconds, especially against someone who is less skilled. It certainly helps, but I know some guys in their late 50's, with a gut, whose skill/ability at sparring far surpasses my own. If we went hard, my more extensive grappling would be the only thing that might give me a chance. Would they be more capable if they were more fit? Probably. But they are quite capable without being more fit.

I have never heard anybody finish a fight wishing they had less cardio.

People will make compromises on their own ability to fight depending on how important fighting success is.

Because I am not likley to get in a fight I have sleep ins and eat pizza. If i was likley to get in a fight. I would be getting fitter.

This is in essence what you are both trying to say exept jojo is trying to drive home that there is no excuse for not being properly prepared. And you are trying to dive home that there are excuses.

It depends how seriously you are taking a potential altercation.

 

[drop bear]

First I think you are stretching out the premise a bit. People are talking about the training of a skill set, and the Military analogy is fairly close there. Your idea of "killing you own soldiers who refuse..." has been gone for well over a century though (outside the dramatic moments of Cinema.) there really were a number of strawman arguments in that post.

As for the fitness bit that has to do with training method. Example my school. During the week we have the "skills classes" which includes sparring, pressure testing necessary for those skills to work in real practice. If you are going to be in a school where there is regular full on sparring then you will get fit, even if it requires you to put in work on your own time. That said my school, and at least one other in my area have at least one block of time a week where fitness is the goal. My school, on Saturdays, has a "conditioning class" think a Crossfit designed around the fundamentals of Traditional Wing Chun and Inosanto Kali. As an example...

start at opposite ends of a large space in the push up position> wait for command and then do X push-ups> Stand and sprint to middle and meet your partner where sticks lie> pick them up and do sinawali or 10 count sumbrada> Wait for the call of break > sprint back to start position and drop to the push-up position.

Now the above may be uncommon for a TMA school, but I see this becoming more common now with the emergence of MMA gyms becoming popular because the TMA's schools wish to remain competitive. They may make these conditioning classes "optional" but the option is there.

That said, I am a damn skinny guy who is on the down hill slope to 50 (you can sorta see the skinny in my profile pic). I try to stay fit but the 20 and 30 somethings I deal with often work out in the gym everyday because they are in and out of jail and it is a "thing" for them to stay very fit with in their peer group, so they are more fit (no job and family allows for more gym time). What has it so I can take them down even though they are more fit? My skill set.

And you can legally shoot people.

 

[Juany118]

And you can legally shoot people.

Yes but those situations are ones I would never even have thought about going hands on.

 

[drop bear]

Yes but those situations are ones I would never even have thought about going hands on.

Doesn't matter the threat is stiil there.

How do you defend yourself against a cop?

Take your beating like a man.

 

[Steve]

Doesn't matter the threat is stiil there.

How do you defend yourself against a cop?

Take your beating like a man.

But Do it with a lot of wailing and sobbing and moaning. If you dont get someone to record it on their phone you might get really messed up. Got to get their attention.

 

[Juany118]

Doesn't matter the threat is stiil there.

How do you defend yourself against a cop?

Take your beating like a man.

Not really. Cops end up in hospital all the time because the initial assualt doesn't rise to the level of lethal force and they get overwhelmed to the point they can't draw a weapon when it would be justified. Then you have the fights where the officer(s) can hold their own and so lethal force isn't justified. As an example LE officers in the US according to FBI statistics are the victim of approximately 50,000 assaults a year. Officers Assaulted

From the report...

• Of the 49,851 officers who were assaulted in 2013, 14,565 (29.2 percent) sustained injuries.
• 31.0 percent of the officers who were attacked with personal weapons (e.g., hands, fists, or feet) suffered injuries.
• 14.6 percent of the officers who were assaulted with knives or other cutting instruments were injured.
• 10.9 percent of officers who were attacked with firearms were injured.
• 27.0 percent of officers who were attacked with other dangerous weapons were injured.

So the stats say otherwise but myths endure. The gun is not a magic wand.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

well no not just strengh, cardio,balance reaction, co ordination can all over come some old fat guy, that had some skills.

holding up some bbj guy in peak condition doesn't mean it will Cary over to the old fat guys you spar with

Okay, so now "fitness" includes a lot of things that actually relate to skill (balance, reaction, coordination). You're conflating the two.

 

[jobo]

First I think you are stretching out the premise a bit. People are talking about the training of a skill set, and the Military analogy is fairly close there. Your idea of "killing you own soldiers who refuse..." has been gone for well over a century though (outside the dramatic moments of Cinema.) there really were a number of strawman arguments in that post.

As for the fitness bit that has to do with training method. Example my school. During the week we have the "skills classes" which includes sparring, pressure testing necessary for those skills to work in real practice. If you are going to be in a school where there is regular full on sparring then you will get fit, even if it requires you to put in work on your own time. That said my school, and at least one other in my area have at least one block of time a week where fitness is the goal. My school, on Saturdays, has a "conditioning class" think a Crossfit designed around the fundamentals of Traditional Wing Chun and Inosanto Kali. As an example...

start at opposite ends of a large space in the push up position> wait for command and then do X push-ups> Stand and sprint to middle and meet your partner where sticks lie> pick them up and do sinawali or 10 count sumbrada> Wait for the call of break > sprint back to start position and drop to the push-up position.

Now the above may be uncommon for a TMA school, but I see this becoming more common now with the emergence of MMA gyms becoming popular because the TMA's schools wish to remain competitive. They may make these conditioning classes "optional" but the option is there.

That said, I am a damn skinny guy who is on the down hill slope to 50 (you can sorta see the skinny in my profile pic). I try to stay fit but the 20 and 30 somethings I deal with often work out in the gym everyday because they are in and out of jail and it is a "thing" for them to stay very fit with in their peer group, so they are more fit (no job and family allows for more gym time). What has it so I can take them down even though they are more fit? My skill set.

Okay, so now "fitness" includes a lot of things that actually relate to skill (balance, reaction, coordination). You're conflating the two.

you can have balance, co ordination and fast reactions with out any martial arts skill, that really my point a basket ball player will out perform your fat old men on those counts as well as being stronger and having better cardio

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I have never heard anybody finish a fight wishing they had less cardio.

People will make compromises on their own ability to fight depending on how important fighting success is.

Because I am not likley to get in a fight I have sleep ins and eat pizza. If i was likley to get in a fight. I would be getting fitter.

This is in essence what you are both trying to say exept jojo is trying to drive home that there is no excuse for not being properly prepared. And you are trying to dive home that there are excuses.

It depends how seriously you are taking a potential altercation.

And how much you expect that difference in fitness to matter.

To me, a reasonable level of fitness for most of those I train is somewhere above average fitness. I prefer to keep a bit ahead of that, myself. I see a diminishing return after that point.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

you can have balance, co ordination and fast reactions with out any martial arts skill, that really my point a basket ball player will out perform your fat old men on those counts as well as being stronger and having better cardio

Perhaps a pro basketball player or elite college player would have better reactions, balance, and coordination. Not the typical amateur.

 

[jobo]

And how much you expect that difference in fitness to matter.

To me, a reasonable level of fitness for most of those I train is somewhere above average fitness. I prefer to keep a bit ahead of that, myself. I see a diminishing return after that point.

I asked before about how you bench mark your fitness as above average, you didn't answer

 

[jobo]

Perhaps a pro basketball player or elite college player would have better reactions, balance, and coordination. Not the typical amateur.

your back in to fantasy land

where only an ELITE athletes is fitter than you and your fat old men

 

[Gerry Seymour]

your back in to fantasy land

where only an ELITE athletes is fitter than you and your fat old men

And where, precisely, did I say anything about physical fitness in that post??? You're imagining things. Once again, I think we're done here. This isn't even entertaining to others.

 

[jobo]

And where, precisely, did I say anything about physical fitness in that post??? You're imagining things. Once again, I think we're done here. This isn't even entertaining to others.

we have already defined physical fitness as reactions,, balance, co ordination cardio and strengh.
you claiming only elite athletes have greater fitness atributes than you and not for the first time

 

[Juany118]

you can have balance, co ordination and fast reactions with out any martial arts skill, that really my point a basket ball player will out perform your fat old men on those counts as well as being stronger and having better cardio

In fitness yes but if they don't know how to punch, grapple or throw etc they won't last long enough for that fitness to matter.

 

[jobo]

In fitness yes but if they don't know how to punch, grapple or throw etc they won't last long enough for that fitness to matter.

ok so a basket ball player who can punch will take you out
this is back to the il take em out in 30secs, I don't need fitness fantasy

 

[Juany118]

ok so a basket ball player who can punch will take you out
this is back to the il take em out in 30secs, I don't need fitness fantasy

You keep moving goal posts. Really no point in continuing.

 

[drop bear]

Not really. Cops end up in hospital all the time because the initial assualt doesn't rise to the level of lethal force and they get overwhelmed to the point they can't draw a weapon when it would be justified. Then you have the fights where the officer(s) can hold their own and so lethal force isn't justified. As an example LE officers in the US according to FBI statistics are the victim of approximately 50,000 assaults a year. Officers Assaulted

From the report...

• Of the 49,851 officers who were assaulted in 2013, 14,565 (29.2 percent) sustained injuries.
• 31.0 percent of the officers who were attacked with personal weapons (e.g., hands, fists, or feet) suffered injuries.
• 14.6 percent of the officers who were assaulted with knives or other cutting instruments were injured.
• 10.9 percent of officers who were attacked with firearms were injured.
• 27.0 percent of officers who were attacked with other dangerous weapons were injured.

So the stats say otherwise but myths endure. The gun is not a magic wand.

Has nothing to do with the level of your ability vs theirs if they are not really fighting you.

 

[drop bear]

And how much you expect that difference in fitness to matter.

To me, a reasonable level of fitness for most of those I train is somewhere above average fitness. I prefer to keep a bit ahead of that, myself. I see a diminishing return after that point.

How do you know the right level of fitness to settle for?