Stephen K. Hayes

[Cryozombie]

technopunk, well i guess it would be his original students that were taught authentic ninjutsu per what hayes says.

Right... but what I am asking is this... Hatsumi sensei had a lot of students PRIOR to Mr. Hayes, and at the same time... that went on to teach. In his statement he said that only DIRECT STUDENTS of Hatsumi or Himself learned authentic Ninjutsu... my question was regarding Hatsumi's other students at that time... did any of them go on to teach "Authentic" ninjutsu, or only Hayes?

 

[gmunoz]

It does, amongst other things, emphasize that if Mr. Hayes feels that way now, that he is indeed out of touch with the way many things are currently taught in the bujinkan. (at least in the limited scope of my training). We do indeed train against boxer jabs, wrestler takedowns, kick boxer round kicks, etc... if he wasnt taught that back then, and still believes it is not being taught... he is missing some of the current Bujinkan. I think it was great he could recognize that was lacking...

Hayes sensei is making reference to how he and others were trained with Hatsumi; how back in those times there were none of those things taught as they were not a peril of the day. He isn't saying that that is how Bujinkan trains currently. It is for that reason that Hayes sensei states that anyone that didn't train back then didn't learn real ninjutsu. If Bujinkan is now teaching the boxer jabs, wrestler takedowns, kick boxer round kicks, etc., then indeed Bujinkan, as well as others have updated their systems as well. The Bujinkan taught taught today is NOT as Takamatsu taught Hatsumi sensei.

 

[Jay Bell]

The Bujinkan taught taught today is NOT as Takamatsu taught Hatsumi sensei.

You were there, I presume?

 

[r.severe]

I am sure Takamatsu sensei was a total warrior with a great deal of knowadge and fighting ability.

But from what I have seen on the Takamatsu sensei DVD by Hatsumi sensei.. I would say there is a great deal of difference in the two guides... of the ryuha.

I do not feel that Hatsumi sensei was trained in all the ryuha gata.. completely.. but I could be mistaken.. but that would be a great under taking for a man of that age to go through for 15 years with such a younger man like Hatsumi sensei...

Like Hatsumi sensei I research a great deal into Japanese ryu and find a great deal of wonderful information.. to use...that is outside the Bujinkan ryu.

For what worth this might be...
I feel there has been many stages in the Bujinkan growth over the past 25 years..
I feel the growth didn't really take off until Tanemura sensei did his thing and then Manaka sensei did his thing.. then followed Hayes shihan.. now others..
Hatsumi sensei has not been as responsible directly for the growth like these others and others to follow..

But for example there is a difference between Bussey sensei, Hayes shihan, Richard Van Donk shihan, Myself, and others in the different stages of growth in the USA.....

ralph severe, kamiyama

 

[Don Roley]

But from what I have seen on the Takamatsu sensei DVD by Hatsumi sensei.. I would say there is a great deal of difference in the two guides... of the ryuha.

I do not feel that Hatsumi sensei was trained in all the ryuha gata.. completely.

First of all, I am calling attention to the fact that Ralph Severe has always claimed that no one could say anything less than flattering about him unless he had trained under Severe. But unless Severe can show proof that he knew Takamatsu, I would expect this post to be held up in the future when he tries that dodge.

Secondly, let us look at the time Hatsumi spent under Takamatsu. Every week he could he showed up to train with Takamatsu. That only ended when Takamatsu died. So we are talking about classes for well over a decade on a weekly basis.

And when he trained with Takamatsu, the majority of the time was one on one training for as long as they could. Personal training, not one guy out of a few hundred.

Oh yes, and let us not forget that when Takamatsu spoke Hatsumi understood him with a native level of Japanese. How many round eyes can say they have that level of understanding?

So, can people like Stephen Hayes, Ralph Severe, etc can show training experience even close to this? When most of us train with Hatsumi, it is with several people in the same room. If you go to a tai kai or a seminar, it is even more people for one teacher. If you are not liked by the Japanese, you are more likely to just be ignored or praised or maybe asked to teach rather than get the correction and guidence that will help you get better.

In short, it is kind of sickening to see people with so little experience in actual training under a real instructor try to tear down Hatsumi to try to make themselves look better.

Oh yeah, this thread is supposed to be about Stephen Hayes and not how little training some non-Bujinkan members want people to believe Hatsumi had with Takamatsu. Can we get back on track, or are certain people unwilling to drop the red herring they are throwing out to divert attention?

 

[r.severe]

Good post by the way... I give it 8 out of 10.


Dear Mr. Severe,

I was looking at your website and your posts over the past while and I a few questions arose in my mind. If you have the time and the inclination I would be grateful if you answered them.

1. Why did you leave the bujinkan?
****ky, I have not left the Bujinkan Dojo. I have my own system I teach through now and do not use the Bujinkan Dojo ranking system. The path I seek is pragmatic, progressive I nature and based on the law of nature. I use the TCJ as a base but fine it has NO training methodology, fitness, health, first aid, firearms, weaponry in general, survival in urban and woodland conflicts, fighting tactics against muti attackers, etc.. for me and for my system so I have to blend what works in harmony with the TCJ and update these outlines yearly.********
2. If you are aggrieved or do not respect their ranking structure and the ability of the grades why do you not distance yourself from that organization and their rank and not mention it?
****ky, This is a very good question. It is the responsibility of all warrior guides to share their experience with those who need direction. Like most people who train in martial arts they do not know a great deal about what they follow or see as truth. I’m just another voice to open up minds to seek truth. It really has nothing to do with the Bujinkan per say.*********
3. Do you use Bujinkan methods in your syllabus?
****ky, if you view my web site the answers to that are very clear. One place to look would be under “private lesson”, Japanese weaponry. You’ll see that your question can be answered with a little research.********
4. Do you think that you know enough about these techniques to teach them properly if you do teach them?
****ky, I have trained in many Japanese systems and their techniques. I don’t feel I have mastered any of techniques. But on the other hand I do have experience in fighting. Which is the base for the ryuha gata. I believe that is what they are for if I am correct by saying that. But the members of the Bujinkan seem to not find that a question or priority in their training or a question to be asked about Hatsumi sensei. I feel I have the ability to teach the ryuha gata very well. Much like Hatsumi sensei was given the soke – ship of the ryuha long before he trained in them. Strange..*********
5. Do you have any previous law enforcement or military training?
****ky, I might. But I cannot find how this is a question about warrior training or teaching there of.*******
6. What qualifications in other martial arts do possess?
****ky, This also can be read on my web site.*********
7. What qualifications in fitness do you posses?
*****ky, I do not understand this question.********
8. What qualifications in firearms and firearms training do you posses?
****ky, I have a great deal of firearms experience and firearms gunsmith. I train military, law enforcement, laymen and special laymen in basic, and advance firearms tactics. I’m also considered a marksman with a pistol and rifle. ***********
9. On what basis do you teach your home defense classes?
****ky, I do not understand this question as it is asked.**********
10.What is the source of you animosity towards Dale Seago and Don Roley?
****ky, I do not have any animosity towards these two human beings. They on the other hand do have it towards me and this is clear. I just enjoy playing with them because they are so immature over the web. Don’t you agree? They are totally funny with their ego and fear towards others.***********
11.Why do you continue you comment on the Bujinkan if you are no longer a member?
****ky, Go back to question one.***************
12. What evidence of fighting experience do you have outside of martial arts style challenges?
****ky, I have people who have seen me fight many times in the street. But during the 70’s and 80’s I failed to carry a pen and paper to get names and address of those who I beat up or who watched and I didn’t carry a camera with me. I do have many scars on my hands from teeth if that counts LOL..
This is really a void question because no one in their right mind would keep any record of any fights they had if they were sane. This could get you jail time.**************
13. Do you engage in this kind of fighting on a regular basis?
****ky, no. I have not had a street fight in many many years. The last one was in 1998 with sticks.********
14. Do you encourage your students to do so?
***ky, HA HA HA no way. I’m a Buddhist and very peaceful in my nature.*************
15. If you do are you in nay concerned about legal repercussions?
****ky, I do not understand the question.*******
15. Are you a career martial artist(ie. it is the main source of your income)?
****ky, yes and no. I’m also an artist.***************
16. What is your understanding of the bujinkan grading system?
****ky, there is none.*************************
17. What do you think is the basis of all good martial arts?
****ky, happiness and peace.*************
18. What do you think constitutes a good grading system?
****ky, totally understanding of the levels of body, mind and heart in a living enviroment.*********

Thank you for your time. In reading this. My interest is purely for entertainment purposes and my curiosity in what makes you conduct yourself in the particular fashion that you do. If you chose not to answer I will more than understand.

Regards,
G.R. UK


ralph severe, kamiyama

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Admin Note:
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http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?&threadid=314

Bob Hubbard,
MartialTalk Owner.

 

[Don Roley]

I have been complaining about thread drift.

The last post by Ralph Severe has nothing at all to do with this thread. It is just another case of him promoting himself and hijacking a thread to gain students. This time it is really, really blatent! The questions he is answering were not asked in this thread. They were not even asked on this message board!

So instead of talking about SKH, we are hearing Ralph talk about himself again.

 

[r.severe]

Well the correlation between Hayes shihan and myself are the same as far as the Bujinkan is concerned.
I was just making this well known by putting forth this example I posted Donny shihan.
The point being I will answer questions from anyone and keep my post completely honest. This is the point of a forum.

I feel if you take the time to read the post you will find the reason I post them.


ralph severe, kamiyama