Sorry ShotoNoob, I find some of what you are saying hard to follow. You say you study a relatively basic style of karate and then go on to say you study Shotokan for karate principles. Are you saying you don't study in or train the Shotokan techniques and applications in a Shotokan school? But that you only study and consider the principles of the style?
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You've said alot, covered a lot. I'll try to do justice.
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Personally, I don't care for the Shotokan style of karate, how most practice it. It has some attributes i find incomparable with my aptitudes and understanding. So no, I don't practice Shotokan, inside or outside of a school. You final sentence is correct in how I approach & use Shotokan.
If it is only the principles, then what actual techniques are you apply and training in? What is this "basic style of karate" from which you are training actual techniques? Is this different to Shotokan or the same?
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My base karate style, the actual techniques, is an offshoot of Shotokan karate. So for discussion, I can use Shotokan for most purposes. My traditional karate style shares most of the same strengths & weaknesses of the Ginchin Funakoshi Shotokan, including some of the later popularized evolutions of Shotokan.
Or are you taking Shotokan principles from a class you attend but then trying to simplify the strikes and techniques yourself?
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NO.
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IMO, the techniques are the same level of complexity.
I would not say Shotokan is a basic style of karate, I have trained in Shotokan schools while on travel and with friends. I do gojy ryu and to be honest, there are an awful lot of similarities between the two and for obvious reasons! In addition you reference the "guest commentator" as saying "getting the foundation body mechanics in Shotokan takes many years of intense practice" but then do not go on to refute this in any way. So I take it you at least agree in part with that?
So can you please re-clarify what it is you are studying in from an overall sense?
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Yes, this is a very key clarification that is needed. Also very, very important for those in the MMA arena who want to utilize the traditional karate style. << I think this the best forum around willing to openly entertain the MMA vs. TMA style issue / controversy >>.
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My overall view of Shotokan is that it is Karate-Do, which focuses more on the foundation skills and emphasizes physical fitness, later mental discipline. The Okinawan karates, such as Gojy Ryu are Karate-Jutsu, which focus, in addition to foundation, on more actual fighting, practical martial applications. I also feel the traditional karate base is stronger in Gojy in many areas. Nonetheless, Shotokan done true to principles can make you very, damn strong, certainly strong enough to take all but the very elitist in MMA. By MMA elite, I mean the 1 in 1 million like John Jones. I would love to see Jon Jones go up against a true Shotokan Master.
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Furthemore, careful readings of my posts will reveal is that personal development of the foundational skills of traditional karate, which include a very well rounded physical fitness, and particularly the "mental state of mind," the mental discipline of mind-body unity, is quite sophisticated & complicated internal process. Since Shotokan strives to do so, which is common across all styles of traditional karate, the outward form of Shotokan may be more physically "simple," and more physically oriented, however, the internal development process is still quite complicated & involved. Shotokan also goes into a lot of detail on technique, but much of that detail is on how to do existing technique or additional technique of the same "basic' form.
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And so you're still talking the 3-5 years for Shotokan black-belt, as a generalization. Developing the foundational skills takes a forging process because of the sophisticated nature of that process, as I've described. The simpler form is basically in the outward construction & execution of the physical technique. And there's still some relative complexity there, additional applications as I've noted.
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That's my view of Shotokan. I think there's lots to criticize about Shotokan, but any nitwit can try & find fault. Therefore, I understand Shotokan done right to be very powerful and those who underestimate Shotokan most often do not understand what traditional karate is trying to accomplish. Shotokan is popular for a reason in that it appeals to many people's aptitudes & practicality in training.
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So though I personally would never choose Shotokan karate for myself, do I endorse it,? HECK YA!!!!
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P.S. Needless to say, the type of MMA fighter you typically will see at the big name MMA schools would never, ever get out of the box in my traditional karate program. They wouldn't pay attention to me either. Those MMA schools are doing a good job for many competitors on the level they want to aspire to. The MMA schools who say they've come up with something better, more modern.... sorry the Okinawan Masters know better, in my experience.
