I totally get the feeling that I needed to be constantly moving, bc that was/ is me. I felt like if there’s no movement it’s like an awkward conversation where nobodies saying anything. The breathing was huge for me yesterday. Box breathing and slowing breathing down when there’s a lull in the movement didn’t have me as gassed like previous classes.
Started BJJ. Leave everytime feeling frustrated
- Thread starter Dborns
- Start date
In stand-up grappling, you learn offense skill (such as hip throw) first. No instructor would teach hip throw counter before teaching hip throw. It seems to me that BJJ takes a different approach than the stand-up grappling does. Why?
Does BJJ emphasizes on "ability enhancement"? In stand-up grappling, "ability enhancement" include monster grip, strong head lock, powerful leg twist, strong shin bite, ... Does BJJ has similar training?
Also, all stand up grappling has a "plan". You try to obtain a grip on your opponent while he has no grip on you. You then move in and apply your technique. Does BJJ also use "plan"?
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For takedowns, BJJ teaches takedowns first and defenses later, the same as other grappling arts.
For groundwork, it's a little different. The focus is on learning how to establish and maintain positional dominance, because this is the foundation of both offense and defense. It doesn't matter how much you train to execute an armbar - you'll never pull one off if you are stuck on the bottom of mount or inside someone's guard.
We do still teach "offense" in the form of submissions from the beginning, before we teach specific defenses to those submissions. But beginners sparring against more experienced practitioners are going to be spending a lot of time stuck in inferior positions. So the typical focus for new students is going to be
- Learning to survive in a bad position long enough to escape
- Learning to escape the bad position
- Learning to progress to a dominant position
- Learning to maintain the dominant position long enough to complete a submission
- Finally finishing the submission
Yes and no. The focus during class time is typically on technique - learning the most efficient use of whatever physical attributes the student possesses. But serious competitors know the importance of maximizing their raw physical attributes as well as their efficient use. There are lots of exercises for developing those attributes - weight training, kettlebells, yoga, pullups using the gi, etc. Usually (but not always) most of that sort of training occurs outside of regular class time.
This is an interesting comparison. It seems to me that in BJJ, the teacher care more about new students. In stand-up wrestling, the teacher care more about old students. It's common that when an old student wrestled with a new student, the result is 5-0. In other words, old students beat up new students is considered as the normal case. When that new student becomes old student, he can then beat up new students.
Here is my logic. In a school, if a new student can walk in and beat up all the old students, this must mean that the teacher is bad.
That’s kind of what was in the back of my mind when I started. The BJJ classes are at the same time and right next to KM, and I always caught myself watching what was going on but doubting myself. I’m 50, in pretty good shape but flexibility sucks and I haven’t wrestled since high school gym class…. But what’s been really great about it is there aren’t any egos, that I can tell, and nobody has completely owned me on purpose while we’re training. I think I would quit if I felt like someone was showing off or being a jerk and running me into the ground, but I haven’t experienced that yet. In fact, I had a younger kid brown belt walk by me and say “Sir would you like to roll” last training and I had to look behind me thinking he was talking to someone else. The atmosphere is awesome.
It seems like you're conflating two separate issues there:
- Which students the teacher cares more about.
- Which students will dominate in sparring.
That in no way means that the instructor should care less about the new students.
You can certainly find BJJ gyms like that. There are instructors who only care about the prestige of having students who win medals in competition. They devote all their time and attention to the students who are top competitors and treat new students just as minnows to be fed to the sharks. The average new student who just wants to have some fun and learn some self defense will probably drop out early at these schools because they're just getting smashed with no guidance or encouragement. These instructors don't mind because those students probably weren't going to be top athletes and bring them glory anyway.
That isn't a philosophy I care for. I teach martial arts because I love the martial arts and I love to share the things I love with anyone who appreciates them. That applies to brand new students with no talent or athletic ability as much as experienced practitioners and potential champion athletes. Honestly, I have a lot more respect for teachers who can help untalented novices develop than those who only work with experienced practitioners and natural athletes.
skribs
Grandmaster
These are two completely different groups because my Professor loves me.
When you're in a bad position the onus is on your partner to attack. However, you need to create the conditions that make an escape a realistic prospect
If your cardio is great (&/or you are much bigger/stronger than your opponent) then you can do this by aggressively moving (typically in 2 directions) to unbalance your opponent sufficiently for an escape to present itself
However, if your cardio isn't great then you risk gassing out and that's when you're extremely vulnerable. So you should focus on defending yourself (eg tucking your elbows in, protecting your neck), making micro adjustments to improve your situation &/or respond to your opponent's attempts to progress. At some point your opponent will need to commit to an attack or change in position, this is when they are most vulnerable and is usually your opportunity to escape
Also focus on how to position yourself to reduce the pressure on your chest
Eg slightly on your side using your elbow/forearm to frame against your opponent
I never had a plan when I rolled, sparred or competed. Other than the obvious ones.
A lot of my fellow black belts did, and a lot of my students. Those were their choices and most of them worked out well for them.
I always had a plan in police work, though, you kind of had to.
To me, you either play the cards coming your way in a roll, spar or competition because they’re usually different. Or you deal the cards yourself.
A lot of my fellow black belts did, and a lot of my students. Those were their choices and most of them worked out well for them.
I always had a plan in police work, though, you kind of had to.
To me, you either play the cards coming your way in a roll, spar or competition because they’re usually different. Or you deal the cards yourself.
Darren
Green Belt
im 59 years old slow learner to! recently received my blue belt we have 5 minute rolls i learned a lot on my back for that 1.5 years i was on my back and still on my back but able to get out of almost anything almost? just keep going yes disappoint will come and come some more but never ever give up, i be doing something like folding clothes and bam it just hits me i need to try this and/or i need to try that, then i will text my instructor can i do this or that he will tell me yes or no, example i used to become a bed on the mat people would lay on me like that too they now better now then to brace themself with there arms cause i will grab it and twist it up so now they lay on me like a surf board arms in the air just the other day it came to me when they start doing that buck like a bronco horse knock them off me then go for it. it will come in time then they will start doing something else then i will have to figure that out, but keep going it will come in time!! also some days are good and some day are bad keep going in time those bad days will get less and less.
Without ever having tried BJJ, my impression is that it's totally normal.. every time you start something new that implies new physical skills, you suck for a few months. We all did in our respective arts.
The main difference here is that you're immediately put together with people who have a slight advantage over you.
As for the three minutes - yeah, I find BJJ boring as heck to watch which is why I am not that interested. You could pick up Judo, it's a bit more lively.
You mention you're getting drained... there already you have a key. Obviously you're relying too much on physical strength. The idea of any martial art is that you don't need to be all that powerful and fit. It is useful but not necessary. Technique and understanding of body mechanics beats strength and size (but you gotta be good for this latter
), that's the whole idea.Instead of trying many moves, you could agree to practice a single technique with a knowledgeable partner: he will let you get in a position where you can try it - and it must work without big exertion. Agree on a "freeze word", so you both can stop "fighting" and you can examine your position and your partner can give you advice, then you restart.
The key is to not give up.
I really like that idea of a freeze word. Mind if i steal it for any future sparring classes? Even outside grappling, if someone's just not getting something to work, i think having that built in could be pretty usefulWithout ever having tried BJJ, my impression is that it's totally normal.. every time you start something new that implies new physical skills, you suck for a few months. We all did in our respective arts.
The main difference here is that you're immediately put together with people who have a slight advantage over you.
As for the three minutes - yeah, I find BJJ boring as heck to watch which is why I am not that interested. You could pick up Judo, it's a bit more lively.
You mention you're getting drained... there already you have a key. Obviously you're relying too much on physical strength. The idea of any martial art is that you don't need to be all that powerful and fit. It is useful but not necessary. Technique and understanding of body mechanics beats strength and size (but you gotta be good for this latter
Instead of trying many moves, you could agree to practice a single technique with a knowledgeable partner: he will let you get in a position where you can try it - and it must work without big exertion. Agree on a "freeze word", so you both can stop "fighting" and you can examine your position and your partner can give you advice, then you restart.
The key is to not give up.
That's the normal MA skill development process.
Single technique development:
- Your opponent gives you that opportunity.
- You apply technique A.
- Your opponent won't resist/counter your technique A.
Combo development:
- Your opponent gives you that opportunity.
- You apply technique A.
- Your opponent resists or counters your technique A.
- You change technique A into technique B.
- Your opponent won't resist/counter your technique B.
I believe this training method should be used in BJJ too. BJJ may combine "developing" and "testing" together in rolling. IMO, that's not the best way to develop skill.
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Jumping in a little late... but OF COURSE you're frustrated! It's a new system, with significant differences in principles. Krav Maga is a fairly straightforward and direct approach, and doesn't have a ton of unifying principles underneath it other than "does it work?" BJJ, while somewhat direct, has a lot more subtlety and nuance. Krav Maga tends to be big movements and major muscle groups, with quite a bit of tension... BJJ is often about being relaxed and loose as you adapt to position, then tight when you need to be. I can't imagine why you might have some difficulty with switching back and forth at first...
Have fun, relax, and enjoy it.
Have fun, relax, and enjoy it.
Yeah, steal away! It's something I made up when trying to figure out the simplest intention behind katas with friends, where you need real speed and intention but also you want to stop at certain moment to work out what the next kata move does
Tigerwarrior
Brown Belt
Exactly! Knew a black belt in my area, used to train with him. There was another black belt who had been that rank for 10 years more than him. He used to go to his school and roll with him occasionally. One day he told me "I have nothing for him. I have no answers for him" he himself was a black belt and had no answers to that other guy. I think bjj is all about frustration. You get frustrated as a white belt fighting other white belts and blues, when you become a blue the purple belts give you a challenge. Then the browns. Then you're a brown and the black belts give you challenges. Then once you're a black belt there are guys like rickson gracie or even higher skilled belts who crush you everytime like you are a white belt still. Joe Rogan once said "yeah I'm a black belt. But against Marcelo Garcia all I can do is hold him off for a bit. If he wants to kill me he could easily all I can do is stall this and I am a blackbelt" the belt don't make you invincible.
