Stance Work & WC Steps
- Thread starter Yoshiyahu
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Si-Je
Master Black Belt
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Yoshiyahu
Master Black Belt
When I fist started practicing my Sifu said the same thing happen to him. He would wake his wife swinging and kicking an still be sleep!
Si-Je
Master Black Belt
I'm pretty good at coming into him, he's just having me do more and coming in even closer now. Doing the arm locks, takedowns, head throws, where you usually come in so much your to the side or almost totally behind him.
That's been fun, when I don't head throw him right into myself. lol!
Got the punching range, now he wants more bui gee and open hand. Plus working on spear hand strikes to his spleen and liver and back, when I get that close (body and shoulder to shoulder) Punching him is difficult because he's so tall, his shoulder gets in the way. I've been heel kicking as I come in to bring him down, but he wants me to get closer first now. Wedge in with advanced stance into his stance and work from there. I.e. kick from there, punch from there, joint locks, throws etc.
Yes he was. Love him to peices! Is he really the only one that incorporates Dai Sau? I love this move, and the range of applications it has is awesome. I can't believe no one else uses Dai Sau!
mook jong man
Senior Master
I don't know if anyone else does it , really it is only a modified form of Bong Sau , instead of wrist on center line , the finger tips are and it is driven straight up from the elbow .
Some one told me that he designed it when he first came to Australia to counter the boxers hook , I don't know if its true or not that's just what I heard . I never asked him when he was alive because I just naturally thought every Wing Chun had it .
Si-Je
Master Black Belt
That's what I thought for over two years of training, until I started getting online and watching videos from other schools. I'd see videos of shorter people using tan sau against a hook punch from a taller person and I'd wonder, "why aren't they using dai sau?" I just figured they were more advanced in their training than I. (Hubbie is trying to get me to start using tan sau on hook punches, but his monkey arms freak me out! lol! I keep feeling like I'm going to get hit.)
mook jong man
Senior Master
I'm not a huge fan of tan sau against hooks , the timing has to be perfect and your tan sau has to be facing exactly the right direction to his force . If your a bit late the the attackers punch can act a bit like a pak sau and sweep your tan sau aside and you get hit .
If the attacker is a massive gorilla and throws a really committed haymaker sometimes it is necessary to bend the rules of simultaneous counter attack , you can use two arms to deflect the strike by pivoting into it with a Seung Bong , picture the bit from chum kiu where you have one arm over the top of the other , now bring one elbow up and the other elbow down , make sure its covering your head and use that to intercept his arm by pivoting into the strike .
If he's unlucky enough to hit the inside of his arm on your elbow well that's a nice bit of bonus pain and it really sux to be him . Be quick about it and immediately latch his arm down and side -slash him in the throat , you gotta be quick don't forget he has another arm . Sigung said that some people maybe that big and powerful that you would have no choice but to use two arms to defend against one .
Si-Je
Master Black Belt
I did a whole thread on Dai Sau, and couldn't believe no one else used it, and couldn't really find a good video where it's clear in application.
Hubbie shown me seung bong on a hook, and it's pretty good, just not my preference. Dai Sau has spoiled me rotten, it works so great against taller longer armed opponents and is so simple to execute making it quick. Plus it naturally sets you up for a "chop" to the throat/face, or palm under the chin, or later bui gee (I think, going to have to experiment with that).
We'll teach folks to Dai Sau first when they first learn bong sau so their bong sau doesn't collapse. Starting with Dai sau gives them good forward pressure before starting a bong.
Plus, you should be turned "into" bong sau.
We were training at a gym once that had a Jun Fan instructor teaching there. We just were using the space (it was open to gym members before his class started) He saw us working with Dai Sau, and asked us about it. That he'd never seen that move before, etc.
6 months later we get a student that starts and tells us he used to take Jun Fan from that instructor, and that In the middle of his time training there, Dai Sau just appeared. But, that he didn't have the technique refined like we did. Said he didn't like it (and the instructor didn't call it dai sau, we didn't tell him the name of it) the way he taught it, but he liked how we used it in application and form.
Hubbie shown me seung bong on a hook, and it's pretty good, just not my preference. Dai Sau has spoiled me rotten, it works so great against taller longer armed opponents and is so simple to execute making it quick. Plus it naturally sets you up for a "chop" to the throat/face, or palm under the chin, or later bui gee (I think, going to have to experiment with that).
We'll teach folks to Dai Sau first when they first learn bong sau so their bong sau doesn't collapse. Starting with Dai sau gives them good forward pressure before starting a bong.
Plus, you should be turned "into" bong sau.
We were training at a gym once that had a Jun Fan instructor teaching there. We just were using the space (it was open to gym members before his class started) He saw us working with Dai Sau, and asked us about it. That he'd never seen that move before, etc.
6 months later we get a student that starts and tells us he used to take Jun Fan from that instructor, and that In the middle of his time training there, Dai Sau just appeared. But, that he didn't have the technique refined like we did. Said he didn't like it (and the instructor didn't call it dai sau, we didn't tell him the name of it) the way he taught it, but he liked how we used it in application and form.
mook jong man
Senior Master
Did that naughty Jun Fan scammer give you guys any credit and say that he learned it off some Wing Chun folks . He will probably come out with a book next " HOW I INVENTED THE DAI SAU " and a dvd boxed set "THE DAI SAU SYSTEM " as taught to the navy seals , FBI , green beret's , boy scouts , girl guides etc
Si-Je
Master Black Belt
Of course not. lol! The people that came to us from his school told us he didn't have the technique correct, and that the students didn't know how to apply it.
Hubbie was going to tell him the name of it, but I cut him off in mid-sentence (rude I know, but necessary) and told him "don't tell him the NAME of it".
So, he's got this "thing" he does that doesn't fit right in application. I usually like to share with other chunners, I just had a instinct about that one.
Besides, I really think Dai Sau's got have been in WC for a long time. Bong Sau just doesn't make alot of sense without it. Sifu's saying that your turned into bong sau all the time. Well, turned from WHAT? I can see tan sau, but that would be a low bong sau. I see folks doing a high bong sau and just snapping into it off a straight punch or hook, seems like it would collapse eaiser and there's no sensitivity that way.
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Yoshiyahu
Master Black Belt
There are many different applications to bong sau...
Horizotal Bong Sau
Low Bong Sau(Vertical)
High Bong Sau similiar to Bil Sau
Bong Sau about the head
Bong sau made with fist
An many others.
Most Wing Chun people can use the Bong Sau in many different ways.
But I always thought Wu Sau an Bil Sau where good for hooks. Usually the Tan Sau is not good for hooks.
Horizotal Bong Sau
Low Bong Sau(Vertical)
High Bong Sau similiar to Bil Sau
Bong Sau about the head
Bong sau made with fist
An many others.
Most Wing Chun people can use the Bong Sau in many different ways.
But I always thought Wu Sau an Bil Sau where good for hooks. Usually the Tan Sau is not good for hooks.
Si-Je
Master Black Belt
Hubbie says: it's an upper deflection.
Looks a bit like this Sifu uses a variant of Dai Sau with a hook type punch. I've seen him do this (dai-punch, as I call it) in alot of his videos. Hits the guy right in the side of the jaw/neck everytime.
Wondering what that is? But, I like it.
Dai sau has almost the same movement as his "dai-punch, great for deflecting hook punches, good start point for bong sau (when you get turned into bong sau from too much force on your dai sau off a hook/haymaker punch), great to use double dai sau as a break hold from a two handed front choke, on the ground or standing, etc.
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mook jong man
Senior Master
If I remember correctly it means " lifting arm " or " raising arm" something along those lines .
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Yoshiyahu
Master Black Belt
mook jong man
Senior Master
Sorry don't know those ones , we have a Tor Sau which means to drag , its a deflection that redirects a stomach level straight punch downwards .
My Sifu was pretty Australianized and didn't use a lot of the cantonese terms mostly it was " Some bloke trys to hit you , you just do it like this ".
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Yoshiyahu
Master Black Belt
The Reason I asked is because
Tok Sau means:Lifting hand
Tie Sau means:Uplifting hand
According to my lineage
Tok Sau means:Lifting hand
Tie Sau means:Uplifting hand
According to my lineage
mook jong man
Senior Master
No I can't say I have ever heard them mentioned in our lineage , but what ever the meaning of Dai sau is , the movement is still raising your arm up from the shoulder straight from your guard in the optimum angle with the fingertips on the centerline .
I'm not really all that worried about the meaning of it I'm more interested in the fact that It can save me from getting my teeth knocked out mate lol .
