Sport vs. Street

[FriedRice]

These seems to be Amateur level, MMA fighters to maybe semi-pros who all, probably has no chance to ever make it in even the lowest card of the UFC. Not even Bellator.

Now pick 5 of your best students from your self defense class or TMA, of similar sizes. Who would win?

 

[Paul_D]

These seems to be Amateur level, MMA fighters to maybe semi-pros who all, probably has no chance to ever make it in even the lowest card of the UFC. Not even Bellator.

Now pick 5 of your best students from your self defense class or TMA, of similar sizes. Who would win?

That depends how you define a "win". If the self defence guys run away in the street that's a win, if they run away in the ring they get disqualified.

 

[Headhunter]

Oh boy I have a feeling this could be a very long thread

 

[oaktree]

These seems to be Amateur level, MMA fighters to maybe semi-pros who all, probably has no chance to ever make it in even the lowest card of the UFC. Not even Bellator.

Now pick 5 of your best students from your self defense class or TMA, of similar sizes. Who would win?

Can you throw the tires on the opponents head or bash his skull with the tires?

 

[JP3]

[QUOTE="FriedRice, post: 1826897, member: 24070"Now pick 5 of your best students from your self defense class or TMA, of similar sizes. Who would win?[/QUOTE]

OK, define "win." Also, define rules of engagement, e.g. street, meaning anyone can do nything? Or sport, meaning there are rules in place so participants don't get maimed?

My guys would be afraid, therefighting street style vs. guys who all they do is train and try to fight for money, I'm telling you. I'd not put it past a regular old dude against a trained MMA ring guy in a straight-up street fight, with all the "cheating" available in the street.

Put them in a ring with people who train for the ring though? my guys probably lose handily. Because they'd either do things poorly, or get DQ'ed.

 

[FriedRice]

OK, define "win." Also, define rules of engagement, e.g. street, meaning anyone can do nything? Or sport, meaning there are rules in place so participants don't get maimed?

In this "sport", we already have one guy pinning down someone for his buddy to soccer kick and stomp on his head. How much more realism do you want?

And are you saying that there are no rules in the streets, even unwritten ones? I've been in over 10 street fights, and of the ones that I won....I never went for that extra goal of manslaughter and/or second degree murder....hell, not even malicious maiming. Have you? I have at least 1,000 videos of real street fights, categorized. And only about 0.010 percent, involves death....and half of these deaths were accidental....almost all due to a 1 punch KO where the guy cracked his head on the cement on the way down, and died at the hospital.

People rarely to almost never, fight to the death or even maiming in the streets. They stop on their own or the fight gets stopped by bystanders. Many times, it's the Winner who stops on their own....usually when someone gets KO'ed. Also common is when the losing guy says he's done and the winner cease the beatdown.

I'd not put it past a regular old dude against a trained MMA ring guy in a straight-up street fight, with all the "cheating" available in the street.

You think that trained MMA fighters can't cheat or do whatever they wanted in a street fight neither? Now you have someone much more: stronger, younger, resilient, precise, trained, experienced, etc. that can also cheat with weapons, improvised weapons, etc. vs. a regular old dude. Sure, the old dude has a chance just as long as he doesn't think that he's the only one with a gun or something.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

These seems to be Amateur level, MMA fighters to maybe semi-pros who all, probably has no chance to ever make it in even the lowest card of the UFC. Not even Bellator.

Now pick 5 of your best students from your self defense class or TMA, of similar sizes. Who would win?

Ah, this explains a lot.

 

[drop bear]

Can you throw the tires on the opponents head or bash his skull with the tires?

Do you feel it would change the result if you could?

 

[drop bear]

Movig closer to street are these organised gang fights.

Interesting some of the methods they employ.

I assume they are linked up like that so nobody runs.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Movig closer to street are these organised gang fights.

Interesting some of the methods they employ.

I assume they are linked up like that so nobody runs.

Now THAT is a multiple-attacker scenario. Holy crap.

 

[oaktree]

Do you feel it would change the result if you could?

Yes because using a weapon would obviously change the outcome. Stabbing someone, using a brick to the head, pulling a gun all change the outcome. These competition are just that sport competition and are not what a street encounter is.
A real encounter is someone trying to kill you who has no regard for your life. Have you ever had someone tried to kill you? Have you had a gun to your head? If so, then there is no way you would think that this is real.
Ever been raped? That's real so stop thinking this pathetic competition crap is real because people who have been in life and death altercations will tell you this is Disney world compared to the horrors of kill or be killed.

 

[oaktree]

In this "sport", we already have one guy pinning down someone for his buddy to soccer kick and stomp on his head. How much more realism do you want?

And are you saying that there are no rules in the streets, even unwritten ones? I've been in over 10 street fights, and of the ones that I won....I never went for that extra goal of manslaughter and/or second degree murder....hell, not even malicious maiming. Have you? I have at least 1,000 videos of real street fights, categorized. And only about 0.010 percent, involves death....and half of these deaths were accidental....almost all due to a 1 punch KO where the guy cracked his head on the cement on the way down, and died at the hospital.

People rarely to almost never, fight to the death or even maiming in the streets. They stop on their own or the fight gets stopped by bystanders. Many times, it's the Winner who stops on their own....usually when someone gets KO'ed. Also common is when the losing guy says he's done and the winner cease the beatdown.



You think that trained MMA fighters can't cheat or do whatever they wanted in a street fight neither? Now you have someone much more: stronger, younger, resilient, precise, trained, experienced, etc. that can also cheat with weapons, improvised weapons, etc. vs. a regular old dude. Sure, the old dude has a chance just as long as he doesn't think that he's the only one with a gun or something.

I want bottles bricks golf club bats to the body thats real. I want broken ribs and the guy not getting up his arms broken his face beaten to a pulp. There are no rules in a street fight I have been in many as well people use knives, belt buckles, bats, bricks.
I never go and say I'm going to kill or not kill this guy I am going to stab and stab till I say it's over or he isn't moving, the other guy maybe he does the same to me. But if I think we'll maybe he won't kill me maybe he won't cheat and use a weapon that is a deadly assumption. You don't know if the other guy is planning to kill you or not but i rather be prepared that he plans on killing me call me paranoid but I have had people Try to kill me or threatened to kill me.

 

[oaktree]

Let me tell you this story I have said it before about the thug who wanted to fight me fist to fist when I was doing my martial arts. I said see my hand, look empty but between my fingers is my knife, now you try to punch me maybe you get me, but my knife is going straight to your neck. See son you think we fight fair, you think we fight and we trade blows and one of us goes down, but see I got to get home, I have a baby that depends on me to provide food and shelter a wife that needs me, so I have to make it home and that's what I am fighting for to make it home alive, you, you just want to prove your manhood do you see the difference? Do you understand what fighting is real fighting it's about making it home no matter what.

 

[Steve]

Let me tell you this story I have said it before about the thug who wanted to fight me fist to fist when I was doing my martial arts. I said see my hand, look empty but between my fingers is my knife, now you try to punch me maybe you get me, but my knife is going straight to your neck. See son you think we fight fair, you think we fight and we trade blows and one of us goes down, but see I got to get home, I have a baby that depends on me to provide food and shelter a wife that needs me, so I have to make it home and that's what I am fighting for to make it home alive, you, you just want to prove your manhood do you see the difference? Do you understand what fighting is real fighting it's about making it home no matter what.

judged by 12; not carried by 6, and all that. But that seems pretty close to a bright line.

 

[drop bear]

Let me tell you this story I have said it before about the thug who wanted to fight me fist to fist when I was doing my martial arts. I said see my hand, look empty but between my fingers is my knife, now you try to punch me maybe you get me, but my knife is going straight to your neck. See son you think we fight fair, you think we fight and we trade blows and one of us goes down, but see I got to get home, I have a baby that depends on me to provide food and shelter a wife that needs me, so I have to make it home and that's what I am fighting for to make it home alive, you, you just want to prove your manhood do you see the difference? Do you understand what fighting is real fighting it's about making it home no matter what.

um....

I have made it home after every fight as well. And I haven't had to stab dudes in the neck to do it.

Yes because using a weapon would obviously change the outcome. Stabbing someone, using a brick to the head, pulling a gun all change the outcome. These competition are just that sport competition and are not what a street encounter is.
A real encounter is someone trying to kill you who has no regard for your life. Have you ever had someone tried to kill you? Have you had a gun to your head? If so, then there is no way you would think that this is real.
Ever been raped? That's real so stop thinking this pathetic competition crap is real because people who have been in life and death altercations will tell you this is Disney world compared to the horrors of kill or be killed.

Ok. but both sides could thow tires. so it should kind of cancel out.

Ok. so is this real? there is a real broken bottle involved. but the obviously sports style punches and kicks were not?

Did mabye the broken bottle turn an altercation that was not real into one that was?

People who have been in life or death altercations dont necessarily fight any better than people who haven't. It isn't that sort of a scale. I knew a guy who had been shot. which is about as bad as it gets. Then I saw him get dropped with a punch.

Facing the super deadly doesn't protect you from the non deadly.

Jumping in a sport with someone trying to punch your head off still hurts. Regardless of how real it technically isn't.

 

[drop bear]

Now THAT is a multiple-attacker scenario. Holy crap.

Yeah there is a lot of interesting real world ideas in that as well. Like this idea that there would be this massive melee and then it organically sort of breaks up to a stale mate.

Now I have done some decent 50-60 man fights. And they sort of do run out of momentum. That sort of organization is pretty clever how they keep everyone together and organized.

And if you lose organization there you will lose the fight.

 

[oaktree]

um....

I have made it home after every fight as well. And I haven't had to stab dudes in the neck to do it.



Ok. but both sides could thow tires. so it should kind of cancel out.

Ok. so is this real? there is a real broken bottle involved. but the obviously sports style punches and kicks were not?

Did mabye the broken bottle turn an altercation that was not real into one that was?

People who have been in life or death altercations dont necessarily fight any better than people who haven't. It isn't that sort of a scale. I knew a guy who had been shot. which is about as bad as it gets. Then I saw him get dropped with a punch.

Facing the super deadly doesn't protect you from the non deadly.

Jumping in a sport with someone trying to punch your head off still hurts. Regardless of how real it technically isn't.

Well lucky you that you haven't had to stab someone yet, I have which is why I asked have you had someone actually try to kill you as in his intent is to kill you?

A real fight is a fight that anything can go and the chances of being killed are there. It is foolish to think your opponent in the street has any concern for your wellbeing, let me put it this way for you if we were to engage in a fight on the street you would most likely try to use MMA against me and I would most likely take a bat to your knee cap do you see the difference?



I know a guy who is shot as well hell I have had guns to my head I don't have any friends why because they are all dead or in jail. What you don't seem to understand is it has nothing to do with fighting better or technique it has to do with real violence is and what a cage fight is. Do you not understand IT IS A SPORT! stop trying to compare a sport to things involving life or death altercations.

So telling me that a sport with rules and a ref is real is BS. Facing the Super deadly makes you aware that cage fighting is a controlled setting and is not reality.

 

[oaktree]

Here is reality.

 

[Transk53]

In this "sport", we already have one guy pinning down someone for his buddy to soccer kick and stomp on his head. How much more realism do you want?

And are you saying that there are no rules in the streets, even unwritten ones? I've been in over 10 street fights, and of the ones that I won....I never went for that extra goal of manslaughter and/or second degree murder....hell, not even malicious maiming. Have you? I have at least 1,000 videos of real street fights, categorized. And only about 0.010 percent, involves death....and half of these deaths were accidental....almost all due to a 1 punch KO where the guy cracked his head on the cement on the way down, and died at the hospital.

People rarely to almost never, fight to the death or even maiming in the streets. They stop on their own or the fight gets stopped by bystanders. Many times, it's the Winner who stops on their own....usually when someone gets KO'ed. Also common is when the losing guy says he's done and the winner cease the beatdown.



You think that trained MMA fighters can't cheat or do whatever they wanted in a street fight neither? Now you have someone much more: stronger, younger, resilient, precise, trained, experienced, etc. that can also cheat with weapons, improvised weapons, etc. vs. a regular old dude. Sure, the old dude has a chance just as long as he doesn't think that he's the only one with a gun or something.

Yes.

 

[Midnight-shadow]

The main difference between sport fighting and street fighting is that street fighting is far more unpredictable. When you go into a sport fight you have a least a vague idea of what will happen, and how your opponent will conduct themselves in the ring, whereas on the street a lot more is unknown and literally anything can happen. This can really mess with someone's mind and cause them to lose control out of fear of the unknown. And if course when that happens people are more likely to die even if the combatants don't intend to kill.