Sport Fighter

[drop bear]

That would be an awesome introduction to class. I'd want to know whether my teacher's teacher was an immortal highlander or if he just used a time machine to go in search of pre-gunpowder armies to challenge.

I do try to remember to offer a disclaimer when I teach something that I have less practical experience in. For example, the shoulder throw (seio nage). Because of my height (6'4") this isn't a good fit for me. I hardly ever pull it off in sparring. However I know the technical details and I do teach it because it's a valuable technique for people with a different body type. So I tell my students up front that they will almost never see me use the throw, but it may work out better for them. I have taught the throw and then had students use it successfully in sparring afterwards. If that never happened, then I'd probably leave it to someone else to teach the technique.

I have only had one guy at the start of class say that he didn't want to be taken at his word and does want people to challenge him on his ideas.

Same guy I got that quote about facts.

 

[drop bear]

I in no way, shape or form did I mean to insult, upset or bully him. I thought it a question germane to the thread, which is a really cool thread that he started. And thank you for passing it on.

I don't think many folks, if any folks, have seen their instructors engage in street combat. Yet, we train under them. And why wouldn't we?

Again, apologies all around, especially to Guthrie if it upset him. I hope he jumps back in, it's a great thread he posted.

I have seen a few. Not my coach but others.

 

[Flying Crane]

I in no way, shape or form did I mean to insult, upset or bully him. I thought it a question germane to the thread, which is a really cool thread that he started. And thank you for passing it on.

I don't think many folks, if any folks, have seen their instructors engage in street combat. Yet, we train under them. And why wouldn't we?

Again, apologies all around, especially to Guthrie if it upset him. I hope he jumps back in, it's a great thread he posted.

I believe that you in no way acted like a bully, particularly in asking this question. If he indeed has you on ignore, I guess he has his reasons but I can’t fathom why, because you are consistently one of the easiest persons on this forum to get along with.

When someone is making claims and statement such as Guthrie did, it is appropriate for others to ask for clarification and to point out issues with those statements and claims. That is not bullying.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

It is weirder than even that you can hit and do nothing or hit and cripple top conditioned guys.

It is one of the least intuitive techniques I know about.

It’s one of those things I train for, but don’t depend on. I intend it as a distraction (get guard low), and might get lucky and get more.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I have only had one guy at the start of class say that he didn't want to be taken at his word and does want people to challenge him on his ideas.

Same guy I got that quote about facts.

I tell people I’m not the font. I pass along what I know, and will make mistakes. The best I can do is share my reasoning, so they can consider it.

 

[drop bear]

It’s one of those things I train for, but don’t depend on. I intend it as a distraction (get guard low), and might get lucky and get more.

Where for me it is my sparring punisher. So say someone gets exited and wants to bang and I don't want to hand out a concussion. I will drop them with body shots.

 

[Buka]

Body shots are a beautiful thing.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Where for me it is my sparring punisher. So say someone gets exited and wants to bang and I don't want to hand out a concussion. I will drop them with body shots.

Good usage. I need to polish mine some more to rely on it for that.

 

[dvcochran]

Where for me it is my sparring punisher. So say someone gets exited and wants to bang and I don't want to hand out a concussion. I will drop them with body shots.

As a kicker who is getting older (wait, I am already old) I have learned more body shots and ways to land them. I can frustrate the heck out of a sparring partner by keeping them off of me with body kicks.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

That is an absolutely reasonable and appropriate disclaimer to make. I would do the same, every time.

Some of the comments in this thread suggest that if someone has not had a real fight, he then has a duty to undermine his own credibility as a teacher. Never mind his history of training 12 hours a week for twenty-some years working with his teacher, his classmates, and on his own, in his efforts to understand the method and develop some skills, and the approval of his teacher to teach.

I think such a person has a legitimate claim to understand the methods and to be a capable teacher.

I think that if instructors are honest and realistic with themselves, that will take care of most of the problems.

Early in my martial arts career I trained with some instructors who taught me techniques that, as far as I know:
They had never used in a fight (street or competition) or seen used in a fight (street or competition).
Their teachers had never used in a fight (street or competition) or seen used in a fight (street or competition).
Their teacher's teachers had never used in a fight (street or competition) or seen used in a fight (street or competition).

In a few cases, I was taught techniques that I'm pretty certain have never been used in the history of human fights and will very probably never be used in any fight in the future. (Only a few of these. Most of the techniques were at least plausible and some of them probably have been used successfully, even if not by my teachers.)

These teachers weren't frauds or con men. They honestly believed in what they were teaching and worked hard at their art. They just accepted what they had been told without putting it to a proper test. If they had been more self-aware about the limits of their experience then they and their students would have benefited.

 

[Flying Crane]

I think that if instructors are honest and realistic with themselves, that will take care of most of the problems.

Early in my martial arts career I trained with some instructors who taught me techniques that, as far as I know:
They had never used in a fight (street or competition) or seen used in a fight (street or competition).
Their teachers had never used in a fight (street or competition) or seen used in a fight (street or competition).
Their teacher's teachers had never used in a fight (street or competition) or seen used in a fight (street or competition).

In a few cases, I was taught techniques that I'm pretty certain have never been used in the history of human fights and will very probably never be used in any fight in the future. (Only a few of these. Most of the techniques were at least plausible and some of them probably have been used successfully, even if not by my teachers.)

These teachers weren't frauds or con men. They honestly believed in what they were teaching and worked hard at their art. They just accepted what they had been told without putting it to a proper test. If they had been more self-aware about the limits of their experience then they and their students would have benefited.

I’ve had similar experiences as well. And I agree, I don’t believe there was deliberate fraud happening; I think these people just believed. Some of them were/are very very capable martial artists, but I don’t believe that every piece of the curriculum was viable. Some things are simply bad ideas, and they don’t require a lot of experimentation to be able to recognize that. Some things, on their face, just don’t pass the nonsense-sniffer.

Yet as capable martial artists, they still have a lot of legitimacy and good instruction to offer. Even tho some things are clearly questionable, other things are clearly functional. In my opinion, people need to not become too attached to a curriculum that someone else set up, or something that has perhaps become part of an older curriculum where it’s value or function has been lost or forgotten.

Really, it is OK to ditch some things.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Early in my martial arts career I trained with some instructors who taught me techniques that, as far as I know:
They had never used in a fight (street or competition) or seen used in a fight (street or competition).
Their teachers had never used in a fight (street or competition) or seen used in a fight (street or competition).
Their teacher's teachers had never used in a fight (street or competition) or seen used in a fight (street or competition).

You go to a teacher to learn

1. basic/foundation - you may not care about his fighting experience here.
2. his special door guarding skill - you do care about his fighting experience here.

I have always told my students, after they have learned head lock and single leg, they can leave and find themselves another teacher. My whole fighting strategy (rhino guard, double spears, zombie's arms, octopus, …) is centered on the head lock strategy.

 

[Hanzou]

I was once attacked by a crazed, overweight teenager armed with a hammer.

He knocked me on my back, got on top of me and tried to bash my head in. I used the guard and a triangle choke (two "sport" techniques) to escape that situation.

Thank god for sport fighters and sport martial arts.