Spin Techniques

[RHD]

Keep in mind: ANY technique can work if you practice it every day, study it, and learn its applications. One thing I've noticed: the people who claim it would never work are the ones who don't really practice it (i.e. the Kenpo people, BJJ practitioners, and grapplers). Don't dismiss a technique because you don't practice it.

One thing I've noticed is that the only people who think it they'll work are those that practice them, but never really test it in anything other than a highly controlled environment with lots of rules for "safety". Also, better stare practicing that spinning whoopty kick with regular pants and shoes on, perhaps a winter parka as well. Otherwise, you're gonna get a big surprise when you're on your way to the car in the parking lot in mid winter and those 3 punks decide they want your wallet and your face.

Mike

 

[MJS]

One thing I've noticed is that the only people who think it they'll work are those that practice them, but never really test it in anything other than a highly controlled environment with lots of rules for "safety". Also, better stare practicing that spinning whoopty kick with regular pants and shoes on, perhaps a winter parka as well. Otherwise, you're gonna get a big surprise when you're on your way to the car in the parking lot in mid winter and those 3 punks decide they want your wallet and your face.

Mike

Thank you!!!! Those are my thoughts exactly!!!!! I'd like to see a woman in a dress and high heels do a jump spinning kick!!LOL! What is she gonna say, "Hang on a minute Mr. Mugger, while I take my shoes off so I can kick your a**."

Mike

 

[MJS]

That's why when I go get sized for a suit, I make sure it's loose in the legs. Nothing worse than pants that bind me up down there! I heard that's one of the definitions of a hard core martial artist-buying clothes based on how well you can kick in them.

Dude, its still no comparison due to the fact that you're talking about 2 different types of material. But I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, but answer this. What do you do about jeans? I've never heard about anyone getting specially fit jeans.

Mike

 

[MichiganTKD]

I wear loose jeans especially because I want to be able to kick in them should the need arise. But back to the point. I never said spinning or jumping were always useful. They have their place. Of course you probably wouldn't use them in the middle of winter when it is icy outside and you're wearing thick clothes.
You know, grapplers and certain hard stylists (BJJ, Thai Boxers etc.) think they have the market cornered as far as self defense. They have this preconceived notion that only their techniques would work outside. Don't forget, Tae Kwon Do developed as self defense. I would rank traditional Tae Kwon Do as effective as anything they do.
I also believe that, in the right situation, a well executed spin or jump kick outside could put some serious pain on an attacker. Not every situation calls for it. Otherwise I would use a front or side kick. Or maybe an elbow in close. There are many things I could do. That's the beauty of it.

 

[MJS]

I wear loose jeans especially because I want to be able to kick in them should the need arise. But back to the point. I never said spinning or jumping were always useful. They have their place. Of course you probably wouldn't use them in the middle of winter when it is icy outside and you're wearing thick clothes.

I have no problem kicking in the jeans I wear either, but as I said, I focus mainly on low line kicks.

You know, grapplers and certain hard stylists (BJJ, Thai Boxers etc.) think they have the market cornered as far as self defense. They have this preconceived notion that only their techniques would work outside. Don't forget, Tae Kwon Do developed as self defense. I would rank traditional Tae Kwon Do as effective as anything they do.

Come on now. You're not just saying that because you know that they dominate on the ground and that there is a very good chance that they'd eat a TKD for lunch!! And as for their techs. working outside, yes they do! If you watch Gracie In Action, you'll see many fights on hard floors, outside on the ground, and on the beach, so I'd say that they do work!! As for the effectiveness of the SD....I've seen some good stuff. I also train in a few other arts as well, so I have a wide variety of things to pick from. I have to say though, that I've seen some TKD guys spar, and honestly, I was not impressed at all. Someone with good hand skills would eat them up.

I also believe that, in the right situation, a well executed spin or jump kick outside could put some serious pain on an attacker. Not every situation calls for it. Otherwise I would use a front or side kick. Or maybe an elbow in close. There are many things I could do. That's the beauty of it.

I'm sure a well executed spin or jump kick could cause some pain, I never said they wouldnt.

Mike

 

[RHD]

Not every situation calls for it. Otherwise I would use a front or side kick. Or maybe an elbow in close. There are many things I could do. That's the beauty of it.

I'm just curious, how often do you train those elbows at close range in your TKD class? My guess would be not often. It's not to say that elbows aren't used in TKD, but they certainly aren't stressed in most schools. Spinning kicks however, are. I subscribe to the "you fight like you train" philosophy.
Mike

 

[MichiganTKD]

I never said Gracie JJ or Thai Boxing wouldn't work, only that they are not the only techniques that would. I understand full well that these styles train primarily for self defense. What I said was that they seem to think they have the market cornered on self defense. They do not. The spinning and jumping kicks of Tae Kwon Do get a lot of publicity because they are nice to watch. They are not the only techniques we do. I can't speak for all TKD schools, but we emphasize the basics-front, side etc. Don't forget, different styles approach different situations in different ways. I'm curious as to how a grappler would handle 2-3 attackers at once. The beauty of TKD is that it is designed for these type of situations. Traditional TKD is made for situations where the defender is at a disadvantage (i.e. woman vs. man, smaller vs. bigger, 1 vs. 2,3,4 etc.). In a situation where you need to be able to move, say 1 vs. 2, I think jumping and spinning techniques are definitely possible to use. I didn't say you SHOULD use them, I said it would be possible to use them.
And yes, we do train with elbows and similar techniques for one-step, drills etc. We don't use them in sparring because of the danger of accidents, but we do use them.

 

[MJS]

I never said Gracie JJ or Thai Boxing wouldn't work, only that they are not the only techniques that would. I understand full well that these styles train primarily for self defense. What I said was that they seem to think they have the market cornered on self defense. They do not.

And I can name a few myself that think the same thing. I'd wager that anyone could talk to any MA, and they would all say that their system is the best. Why would anyone want to say that they have a flaw in their style?

The spinning and jumping kicks of Tae Kwon Do get a lot of publicity because they are nice to watch. They are not the only techniques we do. I can't speak for all TKD schools, but we emphasize the basics-front, side etc. Don't forget, different styles approach different situations in different ways.

Sure, there are lots of things in many arts that are nice to watch. But, I kind of look at it like this. If its something that you'd not use in an SD situation, then why train it that hard? Sure, there are things in Kenpo that I have to do due to the fact that its part of the rank material, but there are other things that I give more attn. to.

I'm curious as to how a grappler would handle 2-3 attackers at once. The beauty of TKD is that it is designed for these type of situations. Traditional TKD is made for situations where the defender is at a disadvantage (i.e. woman vs. man, smaller vs. bigger, 1 vs. 2,3,4 etc.). In a situation where you need to be able to move, say 1 vs. 2, I think jumping and spinning techniques are definitely possible to use. I didn't say you SHOULD use them, I said it would be possible to use them.

Ahh...the ground vs mult attacker debate. Well, like I've said many times before. Not every fight you have is going to be against mult. attackers. Grappling can infact be used....only difference is that it'll be done standing. If you can grab onto an attacker, use him as a shield against the others, while at the same time, pounding the s**t out of him..well, there ya go!!!

I often wonder about people that make those statements. My counter is usually, "What makes the stand up arts any better at taking care of that situation?" Keep in mind, we're not talking about a Van Damm movie, where the attackers come at you one at a time. Instead, it'll be more like 2 or 3 at a time. Now, you'd really want to turn your back and try a kick in a situation like that? Good luck.

And yes, we do train with elbows and similar techniques for one-step, drills etc. We don't use them in sparring because of the danger of accidents, but we do use them.

Unfortunately, going all out requires some pretty heavy padding. But, I suppose that if you want to train some full power shots, you're gonna need the proper gear.

Mike

 

[Zoran]

I was sort of hoping that we would start thinking outside the box. Let's not turn this into the old "mine is bigger than yours" debate.

But since nobody mentioned it, except for MJS in passing;

If you can grab onto an attacker, use him as a shield against the others, while at the same time, pounding the s**t out of him..well, there ya go!!!

The same principles of a spin, using proper footwork, can be used to maneuver a person as a shield or throw them into another attacker by manipulating their body while executing a proper spin (cross step then torque).

A spin tech, can is used more than just with a spinning backfist or a kick. It really comes down to how and when you execute it and with what technique.

Necessity is the mother of invention. The needs of a confrontation dictates what we use for self defense. So don't just see "spin tech" and automatically think about sparring. Stop, think and analyze. Because when you need these things later, you won't have time to do that then.

 

[MJS]

I was sort of hoping that we would start thinking outside the box. Let's not turn this into the old "mine is bigger than yours" debate.

But since nobody mentioned it, except for MJS in passing;



The same principles of a spin, using proper footwork, can be used to maneuver a person as a shield or throw them into another attacker by manipulating their body while executing a proper spin (cross step then torque).

A spin tech, can is used more than just with a spinning backfist or a kick. It really comes down to how and when you execute it and with what technique.

Necessity is the mother of invention. The needs of a confrontation dictates what we use for self defense. So don't just see "spin tech" and automatically think about sparring. Stop, think and analyze. Because when you need these things later, you won't have time to do that then.

Good point!! :asian: Yeah, I guess this thread did get a little off the track. I see your point though. If you look at Aikido, the majority of that art contains lots of circular footwork, while at the same time, having their opp. move in one direction, and then suddenly and violently change to another.

Footwork is definately an important thing, that is often overlooked. As long as you know where you're spinning and it doesnt put you in a bad position, why not do it.

Mike

 

[MJS]

I never said Gracie JJ or Thai Boxing wouldn't work, only that they are not the only techniques that would. I understand full well that these styles train primarily for self defense. What I said was that they seem to think they have the market cornered on self defense. They do not.

Actually, if you think about it, after the first UFC, considering the sudden surge in people wanting to learn grappling or more about it...well, I think at that time they had the market cornered. They opened up peoples eyes to the fact that knowing how to fight on the ground is an important aspect of SD.

Mike