spin off of "who's against this" thread --

[KempoGuy06]

So we can be just like they are? Kill like they do? No thanks.

Personally not my choice either. What is sad is that no one knows if this would work. If brutally killing someone who has commited a vicious crime is the only means of deterant than it might be worth it. Again this will never happen and it probably wouldnt be affective

How about we set up like a death match facility. Every prisoner in the world is put into an arena and they fight one on one to the death. This could be a solution

I agree that the defense can be abused, any defense can. However, criminal intent (mens rea) is an important part of our justice system. It is why we don't convict for murder when the death was accidental, or why we don't convict small children if they accidentally kill someone. Thus, why should we convict someone who literally cannot tell fantasy from reality (psychosis) and had no criminal intent? Commitment will do more good in that case than prison.

I agree criminal intent is a big factor but the insanity plea is more abused than not, because there is no way to tell if someone is truly insane. What my problem is, is that if someone was to get the insanity plea they would be sent to a mental institution with the posibility of release in 10yrs. I believe they should force them to stay there the rest of their lives. Again would never happen. The justice system in this country is terrible, people get off when they shouldnt. I lost two friends to a shooting, the guy got off on a technicality because they had a gun in the car he claimed self-defense. He shot one of them in the back three times while my friend was try to run away. Self-defense? He took two of my friends lives and is only serving 5yrs based on a technicality.

B

 

[Bigshadow]

I'm sorry, I'm not quite sure what you are trying to say here. Pardon my denseness!

I guess on a scale, stealing 500 dollars is not equivalent to the mass murder of 500 people. Some people are predisposed to be criminals, others consciously choose to do criminal acts. I believe factoring this in, some crimes can be stifled before they happen and well the others we will continue to deal with, with each generation.

 

[JBrainard]

I agree criminal intent is a big factor but the insanity plea is more abused than not, because there is no way to tell if someone is truly insane. What my problem is, is that if someone was to get the insanity plea they would be sent to a mental institution with the posibility of release in 10yrs. I believe they should force them to stay there the rest of their lives. Again would never happen.

From a layman's perspective: In my adventures I've met people who are slightly mentally ill to the crimanally insane. From what I have seeen first hand, it's pretty easy to tell who's not quite in touch with reality. But, I am by no means an expert. And I agree with you, if they go to an institution, they should go there for life. If they become completely coherant on meds, that's great, but what if you release them and they decide they don't like thier meds any more. Scary.

The justice system in this country is terrible, people get off when they shouldnt. I lost two friends to a shooting, the guy got off on a technicality because they had a gun in the car he claimed self-defense. He shot one of them in the back three times while my friend was try to run away. Self-defense? He took two of my friends lives and is only serving 5yrs based on a technicality.

Man, I am sorry
Shooting someone in the back as self defence? F'ing lawyers.

 

[tradrockrat]

A lot of interesting replies.

However, I think that maybe I wasn't as eloquent and informative as I could be. There are several strata so to speak of criminal activites. We try to classify them by names like felony, misdemeaner, etc. Unfortunately, in a thread like this it is hard to to differentiate without creating extremely longwinded posts and detailed explanations. So when I say that I am in favor of the death penalty, I mean that I am in favor of violent criminals being removed permanantly from society for the least cost to the society - that would be a streamlined coporal punishment system that tries, convicts, and allows for one appeal (to reduce those errors) before immediately executing the guilty.

Will there be mistakes? Yes there will, but the only way to actually make no mistakes is to stop trying people all together and that is not acceptable. Of course in this world I envision, the entire justice system would need to be revamped too. Start with the lawyers and the way people are represented in court (another thread)

Someone mentioned the fact that maybe only (only - jeez) 40 % of the convicts are repeat offenders. Most of these criminals don't fall under the capitol punnishment umbrella so they are a concern for the "revamping" of the justice system. What we have now simply does not work to either rehabilitate reliably, nor punnish appropriately IMHO. So the prisons should be brought back to a penal system rather than a rehab system. Does this mean torture? Beatings? No it doesn't. Those that like to point backwards in time to those days when prisons were brutal places of abuse seem to think this what a penal system must be, but that is simply not true, nor is that what I'm advocating. I'm simply advocating a system where the criminal helps to pay for his incarceration through hard labor, thus performing a service to society rather than being a drain. Thus the repeat offenders don't cost us money, nor do they get to train inside to become good enough not to get caught the third time. They work. Hard. I can live with that.

For those that disagree with me, I ask that you come up with your own idea of how to fix the system and what form that system should take. Too often in my discussions about this subject (I work with a rather "liberal" crowd) I find that they only have negatives - no plans, just complaints.

I do not believe that my system will end crime. That is not even my intent. My intent is to punnish those that commit crimes and do it in a cost effective way for those of us that have to pay for it. Plain and simple, I believe that breaking laws must have consequences, but that we shouldn't be the ones to pay for it!


As an aside - the insanity plea. To me this is pretty simple. Assuming they are really insane;are they going to be a threat to self and others for their entire life? If so, then societies security must come first. I believe in therapy and medical help for those that can benefit, but some can't. It's harsh, but a killer is a killer.