Sparring help!

[Sylo]

Hey guys.

I'm typing this from home nursing an injured foot (nope not the leg this time.)

We sparred last night, and I went to late class (more adults/athletes in that class). I wanted to give myself a new challenge. The class I usually go to for sparring is usually teenage kids and older people who really don't give me a run for my money.

Anyway, I was in for a rude awakening.

We did a sort of "ironman" sparring in this class.

1 person is on one side, and everyone else was on the other side in a line (3 other people). They rotate in after a few minutes of sparring until that one person has sparred all 3. This goes on until everyone has been the "ironman". By this time you've sparred everybody at least twice.

Anyway, I sparred the first 2 times fine. I was fresh and was able to hold my own. But, by the time I got to the 3rd fight. I was so tired I was doing everything I could to breathe. The guy I was sparring is very wild, and doesn't have alot of control. This normally wouldn't be an issue.. but he lifts weights and has ALOT of stamina and alot of power. So when he hits you.. he hits you hard. He kept backing me up into corners, and I couldn't get out because he's constantly throwing stuff.

I like to watch my opponent and try to strategize what I am going to do next. But with him it was impossible to do that, since he was just throwing stuff randomly with no real reason for it. Kind of like a street fighter would fight I guess. I'm trying to figure out how to defend against it. He's bigger than me, and right now has alot more stamina and power. He hits hard, and he hits fast and Its hard to get anything in, because he never stops coming.

Brandonlucas was there but didn't spar and he was telling me that he noticed that the guy we call him "Jax" because he reminds me of Jax from Mortal Kombat. doesn't move in any direction but frontwards and backwards. He said that he doesn't have any knowledge of side stepping. He either moves foward or backwards.

What are some things I can do to hold my own against someone like that? He rocked me in the head one good time. This was the first time in a long time I've actually had to spar anyone who actually made me want to make sure I have my hands up.

I injured my right foot with a roundhouse kick at somepoint during sparring.. not sure it was against him. I hit a knee or an elbow.

I stayed out of work today because I got 0 sleep last night due to it hurting. I went to the doctor and they said it wasn't broken. I can walk on it, but its pretty painful to do so. They told me to keep ice on it and keep it elevated as much as I can. 2 things not possible to do at work. So, hopefully my job won't give me crap about it. I told them the truth, and people around here are very close minded and unless I got hurt playing football, they will probably laugh it off. But hopefully not.

 

[bluekey88]

That's a tough situation. Obviously, working on your strength and stamina couldn't hurt.

From a technical standpoint, you need to get him out of his game. Hell, sounds like that's what he did to you. Learn to sidestep...practice it alone, with various technical combos (jab a couple of times to slow him down, sidestep, kick punch back out of range for instance). You'll have to figure out the timing, you want to do this so that he sails past you in his bull rush and you end up beside/behind him.

You need to practgice this motion so that you don't telegraph it. Light feet, very little upper body motion.

If he can't change direction well and he can't hit you due to your superior mobility, then his greater power becomes less of an issue as he can't hit you as well.

You're other option is not to back up when he charges but meet him midway and cut off his attack before it gets going with a barrage of your own. This would possibly have the same effect of taking him out of his games and putting him on the defensive...however, it's risky becuase you'll probably have to eat a shot or two on the way in.

Either way, it sounds like you've got some things to practice in the meantime.

Peace,
Erik

 

[zDom]

Never stops coming eh?

Stick him with the sidekick until he doesn't want to come in at ya anymore

 

[granfire]

Never stops coming eh?

Stick him with the sidekick until he doesn't want to come in at ya anymore

HEHEHEHEHE....ran into a few well placed sidekicks myself, right under the short ribs, hurt like hell and for ever, too!

ANYHOW....as stated in previous sparring threads, you go back eventually you run out of room. You+back in corner=BIG HURT

So, you work the angles, side and round step. A front leg Side is your friend to push opponents back (my instructor said so, so I do believe him!) don't be where the punches hit, then you can counter. We had a clinic on that once, practice counter moves. From a block into an attack, to the back side (ok, hitting the back is most likely illegal target, but the side is fair game) practice it often so you don't have to think about the counter much (you know, when you done your forms enough times you can't just take one element and separate it from the next one without a conscious effort!)

Stamina naturally helps, as well as pacing yourself the first several matches! For now, Iboprofene and ice should help you out, giving you time to work on a game plan.

 

[igillman]

Well, speaking as someone who uses those tactics I can say that if you stay moving in a straight line you will get smeared all over the wall/mirror. Sidestepping will help you get out of the way of the first kick that is thrown but make sure that you do not always step the same way otherwise you will find a back kick or spinning back kick heading straight for you.

In order to counteract that form of attack you have to understand the persons strengths and weaknesses. They are not as quick as you and they do not react as quickly as you will. Their strength lies in being able to overwhelm you, they are prepared to kick and punch six or seven times in return for one or two good hits. They are also prepared to take damage from you and keep moving forward.

You cannot intimidate them, it doesn't matter what colour belt you have or how many stripes are on it, they are not going to fold up and quiver. A roundhouse (turning) kick, spinning kick, hook kick or any kick that does not come at them in a straight line from your body to theirs will not slow them up. They will take the impact (probably block it) in stride and just keep on coming. A front kick, side kick or back kick may stall them if you are lucky but once your leg has been extended and you are no longer pushing they will keep coming at you probably by rolling round your foot into a roundhouse or back kick.

Your hope lies in your ability for guerilla warfare, hit and run tactics, precision strikes. You will not be able to slug it out with them, they are too big and strong. You are going to have to dance around them and watch for openings then step/skip in, kick and then step/skip out again. You cannot rely on them stopping or hesitating when you kick them, they take kicks and punches as an "occupational hazard" and are fully expecting them.

 

[dancingalone]

Well, speaking as someone who uses those tactics I can say that if you stay moving in a straight line you will get smeared all over the wall/mirror. Sidestepping will help you get out of the way of the first kick that is thrown but make sure that you do not always step the same way otherwise you will find a back kick or spinning back kick heading straight for you.

In order to counteract that form of attack you have to understand the persons strengths and weaknesses. They are not as quick as you and they do not react as quickly as you will. Their strength lies in being able to overwhelm you, they are prepared to kick and punch six or seven times in return for one or two good hits. They are also prepared to take damage from you and keep moving forward.

You cannot intimidate them, it doesn't matter what colour belt you have or how many stripes are on it, they are not going to fold up and quiver. A roundhouse (turning) kick, spinning kick, hook kick or any kick that does not come at them in a straight line from your body to theirs will not slow them up. They will take the impact (probably block it) in stride and just keep on coming. A front kick, side kick or back kick may stall them if you are lucky but once your leg has been extended and you are no longer pushing they will keep coming at you probably by rolling round your foot into a roundhouse or back kick.

Your hope lies in your ability for guerilla warfare, hit and run tactics, precision strikes. You will not be able to slug it out with them, they are too big and strong. You are going to have to dance around them and watch for openings then step/skip in, kick and then step/skip out again. You cannot rely on them stopping or hesitating when you kick them, they take kicks and punches as an "occupational hazard" and are fully expecting them.

That's an excellent contribution, jgillman.

This starts getting into the difference between sparring and fighting. In a real fight with a person like this, you would simply have to hit him with enough force in a soft enough spot to disable him or at least stun him enough for you to get away. It's very much like the self-defense seminars taught to women.

Of course, since you are in a friendly sparring situation, you can't do that. It's a tough situation. You have to pull your strikes, but at the same time, he's probably not respecting your counters and that makes it difficult to spar him.

Me personally, I would blast him with a front kick as he is coming in. If he eats enough of those, he'll be less careless about coming in. This assumes you have sufficient power and stability to be able to do it against an oncoming rusher of course. If he's just better than you, nothing to do but grin and bear it. One real gamechanger than will work for almost any body build is a spinning backfist. I've seen a petite woman KO an aggressive man much heavier than her with a well-placed, albeit wild, pop to the side of the face.

 

[granfire]

roflmao, the spinning back fist packs some awesome power, even if halfa$$ed and unintentional... use it if you are lucky enough to do so in a regular match (we can only use it on targets and heavy bags...sigh, it was such a good move to counter a lady that always managed to spin me around....)

 

[Manny]

Hey guys.

I'm typing this from home nursing an injured foot (nope not the leg this time.)

We sparred last night, and I went to late class (more adults/athletes in that class). I wanted to give myself a new challenge. The class I usually go to for sparring is usually teenage kids and older people who really don't give me a run for my money.

Anyway, I was in for a rude awakening.

We did a sort of "ironman" sparring in this class.

1 person is on one side, and everyone else was on the other side in a line (3 other people). They rotate in after a few minutes of sparring until that one person has sparred all 3. This goes on until everyone has been the "ironman". By this time you've sparred everybody at least twice.

Anyway, I sparred the first 2 times fine. I was fresh and was able to hold my own. But, by the time I got to the 3rd fight. I was so tired I was doing everything I could to breathe. The guy I was sparring is very wild, and doesn't have alot of control. This normally wouldn't be an issue.. but he lifts weights and has ALOT of stamina and alot of power. So when he hits you.. he hits you hard. He kept backing me up into corners, and I couldn't get out because he's constantly throwing stuff.

I like to watch my opponent and try to strategize what I am going to do next. But with him it was impossible to do that, since he was just throwing stuff randomly with no real reason for it. Kind of like a street fighter would fight I guess. I'm trying to figure out how to defend against it. He's bigger than me, and right now has alot more stamina and power. He hits hard, and he hits fast and Its hard to get anything in, because he never stops coming.

Brandonlucas was there but didn't spar and he was telling me that he noticed that the guy we call him "Jax" because he reminds me of Jax from Mortal Kombat. doesn't move in any direction but frontwards and backwards. He said that he doesn't have any knowledge of side stepping. He either moves foward or backwards.

What are some things I can do to hold my own against someone like that? He rocked me in the head one good time. This was the first time in a long time I've actually had to spar anyone who actually made me want to make sure I have my hands up.

I injured my right foot with a roundhouse kick at somepoint during sparring.. not sure it was against him. I hit a knee or an elbow.

I stayed out of work today because I got 0 sleep last night due to it hurting. I went to the doctor and they said it wasn't broken. I can walk on it, but its pretty painful to do so. They told me to keep ice on it and keep it elevated as much as I can. 2 things not possible to do at work. So, hopefully my job won't give me crap about it. I told them the truth, and people around here are very close minded and unless I got hurt playing football, they will probably laugh it off. But hopefully not.

Yeah I know how it feels to be hurt, I had an almost torn toe of my lefth foot and the doctor end me home for 10 days I retook trining this tuesday and my foot is stiil in pain but I'm taking things easy, tomorrow is sparrin session and I wont go to class cause I don't wana hurt me more, I kwon I will try to give my best and I will hurt my foot again so I will pass this time, let's see if in a couple of weeks I can spar.

Manny

 

[Deaf Smith]

Sylo.

Do any of you wear padding in class? Gloves, shinguards, cup, etc???
That would keep your injuries down.

Now sparring. What is 'legal' to use in class? Is everything above the belt? Elbows allowed? Uppercuts? When you spar, is the area tight or can you manuver much?

How big is the guy? How much reach? Is he a kicker or a puncher? Is he a runner or slugger? In short, what are his tactics?

Now for the immediate. Can you get to spar him first while you are freash. If it's easy to do, act like you want to spar him and get him first before you are tired.

Deaf

 

[Sylo]

Sylo.

Do any of you wear padding in class? Gloves, shinguards, cup, etc???
That would keep your injuries down.

Now sparring. What is 'legal' to use in class? Is everything above the belt? Elbows allowed? Uppercuts? When you spar, is the area tight or can you manuver much?

How big is the guy? How much reach? Is he a kicker or a puncher? Is he a runner or slugger? In short, what are his tactics?

Now for the immediate. Can you get to spar him first while you are freash. If it's easy to do, act like you want to spar him and get him first before you are tired.

Deaf

Deaf,

We wear forearm and fist guards, and shin and instep guards. The Ones the instructor gave me are not the typical ones the other students get.

here's a link...

http://www.rhingousa.com/scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=87

here's a link to the rest of the stuff I wear.

http://www.rhingousa.com/scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=44

http://www.rhingousa.com/scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=44 (I have an older version)

and of course we wear groin protection, and mouthguards. We also wear chest protectors.

I used to wear cloth shin guards and forearm guards and use Century classic foam dipped sparring kicks/punches. I still have them, and may go back to using those.


-----

The Guy probably weighs about 230-240 maybe less.. but its almost all muscle. He's very muscular. He's a kicker, and has pretty darn good reach. He caught me with a roundhouse kick to the side of the head and I'm 6'1". As far as tactics. Sparring is his bread and butter. He yearns for sparring class. He constantly asks the other students if they are coming to sparring class so he can spar them. He has no fear. He's a nice guy. But he's a little rough for friendly sparring. He actually told me in the locker room, that he pulled most of his shots.. and that he normally wouldn't. He was still hitting me like a mule because he doesn't have any control.

He likes to rush you, and because of his stamina being so high. He can let lose move after move in no real strategic sequence. He just kinds of throws stuff everywhere hoping he hits you with it. He hits so hard, that if this wasn't a sparring match all he would need to do is hit you with one stiff shot and you'd be done for. Most of his moves are easy to block. But he hits so hard that blocking is not the most feasible way to defend half the time. But because of the sheer amount of moves he throws, neither is dodging. The only thing I found effective was to stay so close to him that I cut off his range. He doesn't do much when he can't kick you. But its dangerous to do this because he's still TRYING to kick you even though your too close to him. This is probably how my foot got injured. The first time I sparred him. I was fresh and it was slightly different, but still rough. Once I sparred him again I was so tired that I was letting my guard down.. and thats how I got smacked.

Our rules are basically.. light to medium contact. No hands to the head/face. Punches are legal to the chest protector. Kicks to the head are legal. Nothing below the belt or to the back. Its not point sparring, so there is no stopping. We spar til the instructor says to stop.

 

[sub7]

im new to tkd but if i were u, i would have him attack me first, since he not good at move side ways, when he attack i just move to his side as fast as i can and round house kick him in the big circle and score one point because after he attacks and i block it by moving to the side it would take longer for him to turn..

 

[Marginal]

One other thing my instructor likes to point out is a side push kick can work wonders against a big guy who likes to charge in. Trick is to vector the push towards his hip. It's hard to resist a push aimed at the hinge even for a solid guy. (If you're quick, you can even catch 'em with a kick when they lean forward) It'll help kill their forward momentum in a pinch.

Of course, this is in addition to staying light on your feet, and working angles. You're way harder to hit in motion. Usually it's when someone sets their feet for a block or an attack that you're most likely to catch them with your own offense. Once they're committed to one thing, they can't do something else until they clear that particular action.

 

[granfire]

Deaf,

We wear forearm and fist guards, and shin and instep guards. The Ones the instructor gave me are not the typical ones the other students get.

here's a link...

http://www.rhingousa.com/scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=87

here's a link to the rest of the stuff I wear.

http://www.rhingousa.com/scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=44

http://www.rhingousa.com/scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=44 (I have an older version)

and of course we wear groin protection, and mouthguards. We also wear chest protectors.

I used to wear cloth shin guards and forearm guards and use Century classic foam dipped sparring kicks/punches. I still have them, and may go back to using those.


-----

The Guy probably weighs about 230-240 maybe less.. but its almost all muscle. He's very muscular. He's a kicker, and has pretty darn good reach. He caught me with a roundhouse kick to the side of the head and I'm 6'1". As far as tactics. Sparring is his bread and butter. He yearns for sparring class. He constantly asks the other students if they are coming to sparring class so he can spar them. He has no fear. He's a nice guy. But he's a little rough for friendly sparring. He actually told me in the locker room, that he pulled most of his shots.. and that he normally wouldn't. He was still hitting me like a mule because he doesn't have any control.

He likes to rush you, and because of his stamina being so high. He can let lose move after move in no real strategic sequence. He just kinds of throws stuff everywhere hoping he hits you with it. He hits so hard, that if this wasn't a sparring match all he would need to do is hit you with one stiff shot and you'd be done for. Most of his moves are easy to block. But he hits so hard that blocking is not the most feasible way to defend half the time. But because of the sheer amount of moves he throws, neither is dodging. The only thing I found effective was to stay so close to him that I cut off his range. He doesn't do much when he can't kick you. But its dangerous to do this because he's still TRYING to kick you even though your too close to him. This is probably how my foot got injured. The first time I sparred him. I was fresh and it was slightly different, but still rough. Once I sparred him again I was so tired that I was letting my guard down.. and thats how I got smacked.

Our rules are basically.. light to medium contact. No hands to the head/face. Punches are legal to the chest protector. Kicks to the head are legal. Nothing below the belt or to the back. Its not point sparring, so there is no stopping. We spar til the instructor says to stop.

Well, this is why MA are so much more exhausting then the same time in aerobics or on a tread mill: You gotta think on your feet.

Now you have to disect the situation. Everybody has a weak spot. (and frankly, *I* can kick you in the head, being all of 5'5" tall especially with a round..)

ANYHOW. You have to watch him - any chance you get. And when you get to spar him again, make sure you are fresh. Do spar him more often, too. I know, i know....you gotta be a glutton for punishment...but that way you learn more about him!

he has a good range kicking - breach the distance and move in.

he goes straight line - don't meet him head on - he sounds like he is buid like a Sherman Tank...you get squashed.

you can't block or dodge all the time - avoid being in the strike zone (but we already covered the back...only so far and you are out of real estate)

 

[HM2PAC]

I agree with moving at angles and trying to re-direct his energy. Take a look at a few Hung Gar techniques.

Another technique that can help is to get low and offer a smaller target. This works well for those who are really fast. Being seated low in a stance and having the ability to strike fast and hard may give you that fraction of a second to see a chink in the armor.

In your off time work on jump squats and jump lunges to build explosive "ballistic" strength.

 

[zDom]

Sounds like a good fighter, using his strengths

I second the advice to spar him often. It will only make you a better martial artist.

 

[Deaf Smith]

Ok Sylo,

First the shin and forearm guards. Any chance of slipping a steel insert

Seems he outclasses you. And he is rough. It is going to take a while. The good thing is in spending time trying to defeat him you will become a better fighter. You are going to have to get fit, well practiced, and learn to fight smart.

Here is some interesting help. Read the whole thing. All eight pages.

http://tkdtutor.com/13Sparring/Free-Sparring/SparringStrategy/SparringStrategy01.htm

It's real good info. But it's no good unless you start training hard yourself.

Deaf