Sparring and fighting

[Tony]

There are so many rules in tournaments and I guess they are necessary for both parties in regards to safety but your arsenal is limited and as Martial Artists we have a wide array of empty hand techniques and leg techniques too. What concerns me is from my view point is that people may forget the other techniques they have aquired in their training when needed especially elbows and knees and even head butts.

I can't imagine some of my guys in my class who train solely for competition using eye gouges or biting or any other technique they have been shown but would never use in a competition. I like to shadow box quite a lot and I practice using elbows, clawing, and recently i just remembered the spinning back fist which i had forgotten about but have started to use that in my routine.

I often spar in class with guys who compete and i don't do too bad. My instructor has even suggested to me taht I should compete but I don't know. Now just because I spar with someone who uses competition rules against me and wins, does it mean they are a good fighter? Maybe in a tournament but what about against potential attackers in the street?

 

[AdrenalineJunky]

There are so many rules in tournaments and I guess they are necessary for both parties in regards to safety but your arsenal is limited and as Martial Artists we have a wide array of empty hand techniques and leg techniques too. What concerns me is from my view point is that people may forget the other techniques they have aquired in their training when needed especially elbows and knees and even head butts.

I can't imagine some of my guys in my class who train solely for competition using eye gouges or biting or any other technique they have been shown but would never use in a competition. I like to shadow box quite a lot and I practice using elbows, clawing, and recently i just remembered the spinning back fist which i had forgotten about but have started to use that in my routine.

I often spar in class with guys who compete and i don't do too bad. My instructor has even suggested to me taht I should compete but I don't know. Now just because I spar with someone who uses competition rules against me and wins, does it mean they are a good fighter? Maybe in a tournament but what about against potential attackers in the street?

Street situations are really too hard to predict.

 

[celtic_crippler]

Sparring has it's place in your training just like forms, drills, and techniques. There is no substitute for actual combat so these tools are utilized to enable one to be as prepared as possible for actual combat.

With that in mind, focusing primarily on one aspect and neglecting the others is counter productive to self defense. However, some people study MA soley for the competition part of it. So, you have to ask yourself "What are my goals?" Becasue, basically, you will execute in the street the way you train in the dojo. There can be a big difference between Sport Karate schools and Self Defense Karate schools. To elaborate further, I have defined them as follows:

“Sport” martial arts are those geared toward competition. The driving principles behind your maneuvers are to score points in accordance with a predetermined set of rules. Some examples would be Americanized Tai-Kwon-Do or Olympic style Judo.

“Self-Defense” type arts are geared solely toward protecting yourself and others because of an imminent threat to life or limb. The guiding principles are based on nothing other than protection; there are no rules in the street. Some examples would be Kenpo or Aikido.

I'm not saying "Sport" arts have no self defense value. What I'm saying is that if you attend a school whose focus is on sport, your training will primarily focus on preparing for competitions which do not allow you to use techniques that could be beneficial for self defesne. In other words, you wouldn't practice applying moves like eye gauges, elbows, groin, and knee shots as much as you would if attending a self defense oriented school.

 

[Sin]

Sparring is for practice of techniques in a like real situation...

Fighting is just that "Fighting"...it envolves emotion, usually pure anger

Self-Defence is the protection of ones life or the lives of others

 

[Adept]

Now just because I spar with someone who uses competition rules against me and wins, does it mean they are a good fighter? Maybe in a tournament but what about against potential attackers in the street?

Sparring is a tool we use in training, where we can practice techniques against resisting live opponents.

Unfortunately, some styles (notably Olympic TKD) have 'developed' their competition rules into such an abstraction that they are as far removed from self defense or 'fighting' as tennis or baseball. In fact, as a friend of mine once said, you'd see more fighting in a game of (aussie rules) football than an olympic TKD match.

It isn't necessarily a bad thing, it's just the way it is. People train for different reasons; to get fit, to meet people, for competition, for flips and flash, for self defence, etc.

You just need to work out what your own goals are, and keep them in mind when you are training.

 

[tshadowchaser]

Agreeing with what others have said
Sparring is for class, compition, and learning while fighting is for survival and the rules differ greatly in what is done/allowed or useful

 

[searcher]

The others have made good points about the differences between sparring and fighting, well said. Sparring should be looked upon as a controlled stiuation in which you can try and develop techniques to decide if they are good for a fighting situation. You would not want to try a technique in a fight just because you practise it in class. try it on your sparring partners and see how it works on them. If it is really effective then you might want to consider using it to refine it. That is my opinion of sparring. Competition is good for giving you a chance to deal with some of the adrenal-surge you will feel on the street, but the competition fighters should not consider themselves to be killers because they win a trophy.

Fighting is what happens when you have run out of other options and there needs to be a resolution to a situation. You should never fight angry, you will only end up beaten or in jail. Anger is a powerful emotion, but fighting on emotion often leads to life altering mistakes. You need to be clear headed when you fight.

Where as one can help the other and should be experienced by all. They are to remain seperated in training and in mental thought. JMHO.

 

[MJS]

There are so many rules in tournaments and I guess they are necessary for both parties in regards to safety but your arsenal is limited and as Martial Artists we have a wide array of empty hand techniques and leg techniques too. What concerns me is from my view point is that people may forget the other techniques they have aquired in their training when needed especially elbows and knees and even head butts.

I can't imagine some of my guys in my class who train solely for competition using eye gouges or biting or any other technique they have been shown but would never use in a competition. I like to shadow box quite a lot and I practice using elbows, clawing, and recently i just remembered the spinning back fist which i had forgotten about but have started to use that in my routine.

I often spar in class with guys who compete and i don't do too bad. My instructor has even suggested to me taht I should compete but I don't know. Now just because I spar with someone who uses competition rules against me and wins, does it mean they are a good fighter? Maybe in a tournament but what about against potential attackers in the street?

Alot of it IMO, is going to come down to how the person trains and what their goals are. The saying, 'you'll fight like you train' comes to mind here. Now, this is not to say that someone training with a sport mentality won't be able to defend themselves, but their actions may still have that 'sport' look about them.

As for you sparring them in class. Again, its going to come down to the rules of the match. Its like putting a pure grappler against a boxer, with the stipulation that they can't grapple. Any time you limit someone to what they can do, the odds are going to be stacked against them.

Mike

 

[still learning]

Hello, Remember the way you train...is the way you will fight on the "streets". ......that is why alot of black belts get beating up!

They say it take a few months to get rid of tournment sparring out of your mind to get to "street training".

The idea in a real street fight is to end it fast and leave alive! or when you can get away (run away).

Sparring and real fighting....totally two different things.....one is sport (fun) and the other....real,dirty,possible of getting kill,injury for life....anything goes including who ever is on the side to hit you with a bat. NO RULES here!

Eyes have it....take it out?...........Aloha

 

[deadhand31]

Unfortunately, some styles (notably Olympic TKD) have 'developed' their competition rules into such an abstraction that they are as far removed from self defense or 'fighting' as tennis or baseball. In fact, as a friend of mine once said, you'd see more fighting in a game of (aussie rules) football than an olympic TKD match.

Being a TKD practitioner, I sadly have to agree. It's why I tend not to compete in "Olympic Style" tournaments. I see alot of stupid manuevers, like falling down on purpose, or going belly-to-belly so you can push off for a quick point as you go back. They also practice more of "Tae Do", since their hands are mostly dangling useless for the majority of the time.

However, in looking at the olympic TKD, I do have to note that they are fast. They tend to be VERY fast. Training for such tourneys might improve your speed.

Now, does it make them a good fighter? There's only one way to find that out. Set up a street fighting match. My school tends to do this regularly. Basic rules are

1.open hands to the head
2.no kicks to the knees
3.no kicks to the groin
4.no sweeps (i had my ankle broken when a guy did that to me. i'm a little big for a sweep to drop me if it's low)
5.takedowns are allowed, submission on the ground is encouraged

If you feel comfortable doing this with your buddies that you've sparred, set up a few matches like this. They may be surprised how different they need to view this after go a few rounds.