Some MA teachers only teach form without application?

[Same Trick]

You're ruining my joke

Introduction of Yang Style Lao Liu Lu Taijiquan

In the time of Qing Dynasty, taijiquan was quite popular in the royal palace due to Prince Pu Lun Bei Zi, a man of great power and wealth, who appreciated the fighting technique of Yang-style taijiquan. He recognized the martial applications disguised in the slow, graceful movements, as if there...

ymaa.com

There are many biographies of Wang Yongquang, written and unwritten, all of which contain secrets waiting to be plucked like ripe fruit. WYQ in particular has had a lot written about him at various points of his life, to his credit, we know a lot about him and thus we gain a valuable insight into Yang style Tai Chi.

I don’t understand, you mean you just made up the previous story you wrote where Wang Yongquan supposedly failed to gain Chen Fake’s recognition as a joke ?
If so, what’s funny about that ?

Actually you didn’t made up that story, you copied an already established story and altered it.
So you made a couple of morally questionable actions by that.

What is an unwritten biography ?

 

[isshinryuronin]

In Martial Talk, Taiji is under "Chinese martial Arts Talk" category. By Martial Talk definition, Taiji has already been defined as a combat art (assume martial arts = combat art).

If Taiji is not a combat art, we won't even discuss it in this forum.

​

I do believe taiji chua'an is a martial art taught with combat applications. But the more numerous taiji (without the "chua'an") groups have abandoned the teaching of these applications and practice, or at least don't emphasize them, positioning their art as health supporting exercise and spiritual/self-development. I would call it low-impact exercise based on a martial art.

There's nothing wrong with that if that's what you want as it's certainly a positive activity benefiting muscle tone, suppleness, breathing and mental calmness one can do into their eighties. And in a pinch, may help someone protect themselves a few seconds longer in the hopes of a passerby coming to the rescue or getting a lucky eye poke in. Cool to watch, but I don't have the patience to do slow motion exercise.

 

[windwalker099]

I do believe taiji chua'an is a martial art taught with combat applications. But the more numerous taiji (without the "chua'an") groups have abandoned the teaching of these applications and practice, or at least don't emphasize them, positioning their art as health supporting exercise and spiritual/self-development. I would call it low-impact exercise based on a martial art.

There's nothing wrong with that if that's what you want as it's certainly a positive activity benefiting muscle tone, suppleness, breathing and mental calmness one can do into their eighties. And in a pinch, may help someone protect themselves a few seconds longer in the hopes of a passerby coming to the rescue or getting a lucky eye poke in. Cool to watch, but I don't have the patience to do slow motion exercise.

Wondering if you ever practiced Taiji ?

what looks slow to the observer, not slow for the practitioner.

The practice is actually much more strenuous than it appears to an outside observer. Of course, the intensity depends on the teacher and the group, as with any discipline.

In my experience, most people coming from other martial arts struggle to meet the physical requirements of the practice—it’s very demanding for them.

Used to train in some of Ben's classes....the legs would be so shot,,,almost unable to drive home...
practice was quite hard.

Benjamin Pang Jeng Lo Interview

 

[Same Trick]

I don't have the patience to do slow motion exercise.

“Ever since you learned your first Karate punch, you’ve been cheating.”


Why Slow Training Improves Your Karate Techniques (& Life)

 

[Same Trick]

Auummm!! Posted in wrong thread

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

“Ever since you learned your first Karate punch, you’ve been cheating.”


Why Slow Training Improves Your Karate Techniques (& Life)

When I was young, one day I was lazy. I trained long fist in slow motion. My long fist teacher said, "If you don't feel like training, don't train. If you want to train, you should always train in combat speed".

One day I asked my SC teacher, "What's combat speed". He said, "You move your body so fast that your eye balls are going to fly out of your eye sockets."

Both of my teachers have passed away. I still remember their words even today. I know my speed is get slower daily. But I still try to maintain my speed as much as I can.

 

[isshinryuronin]

The practice is actually much more strenuous than it appears to an outside observer. Of course, the intensity depends on the teacher and the group, as with any discipline.

Never said it wasn't physical, just low impact. I did mention it developed muscle tone as well as suppleness. It is strenuous to move in slow motion, especially in low stances. But as the saying goes, "Slow is smooth and smooth is fast." Some schools may not teach the last part.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

"Slow is smooth and smooth is fast." Some schools may not teach the last part.

I agree that "slow is smooth". When you move slow, it's easier to achieve body unification (3 harmonies).

But I don't agree that "Smooth is fast." Smooth is the path (training). Fast is the goal (ability). You train in order to develop ability. Your goal is fast. Your goal is not smooth. Many people can do smooth all their life. But they have never achieved fast.

This video at 0.14 - 0.16 is fast.

In this video, Brendan Lai showed how to use slow training (path) to achieve fast speed (goal).

 

[Same Trick]

, "You move your body so fast that your eye balls are going to fly out of your eye sockets."

see, that’s so fast you’ll loose

 

[Same Trick]

Never said it wasn't physical, just low impact. I did mention it developed muscle tone as well as suppleness. It is strenuous to move in slow motion, especially in low stances. But as the saying goes, "Slow is smooth and smooth is fast." Some schools may not teach the last part.

The taiji form takes about 20 min to complete in one flow, it’s 20 min of unbroken focus, think as if doing sanchin kata for 20 min

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

The taiji form takes about 20 min to complete in one flow, it’s 20 min of unbroken focus, think as if doing sanchin kata for 20 min

How long is your Taiji form?

This 108 moves Taiji form only take 4 minutes and 42 seconds to finish.

 

[Same Trick]

How long is your Taiji form?

This 108 moves Taiji form only take 4 minutes and 42 seconds to finish.

Yes that’s too fast, when gained more experience I agree variation of “speed” and footwork comes through but still with flow that would shorten the timeframe to about not less than 10min for the long form

 

[Taiji Rebel]

How long is your Taiji form?

This 108 moves Taiji form only take 4 minutes and 42 seconds to finish.

Here is Chen Xiaowang going through the form:

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

If we define tai chi Chuan as the combat art, I’d agree

While Tai Chi may be many things, In my opinion it cannot be defined as other than that. It is a martial art first. Without the martial aspect it is not Tai Chi Chuan. As I said before there are many ways to get health benefits from exercise, why bastardize tai chi when you could go for a walk or ride a bike?

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

I do believe taiji chua'an is a martial art taught with combat applications. But the more numerous taiji (without the "chua'an") groups have abandoned the teaching of these applications and practice, or at least don't emphasize them, positioning their art as health supporting exercise and spiritual/self-development. I would call it low-impact exercise based on a martial art.

There's nothing wrong with that if that's what you want as it's certainly a positive activity benefiting muscle tone, suppleness, breathing and mental calmness one can do into their eighties. And in a pinch, may help someone protect themselves a few seconds longer in the hopes of a passerby coming to the rescue or getting a lucky eye poke in. Cool to watch, but I don't have the patience to do slow motion exercise.

Patience is key. However, we train it at all speeds. If you see me go full speed through the form you will think it is a gung fu form. I can make the form last about 50 minutes if I go as slow as I can. I’m dripping wet after a 50 minute slow form. The applications get faster as you are able to slow down the form. In use, a punch is still a punch and a kick is still a kick.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

Wondering if you ever practiced Taiji ?

what looks slow to the observer, not slow for the practitioner.

The practice is actually much more strenuous than it appears to an outside observer. Of course, the intensity depends on the teacher and the group, as with any discipline.

In my experience, most people coming from other martial arts struggle to meet the physical requirements of the practice—it’s very demanding for them.

Used to train in some of Ben's classes....the legs would be so shot,,,almost unable to drive home...
practice was quite hard.

Benjamin Pang Jeng Lo Interview

100% agree, people would come to our gym and want Tai Chi Chuan instead of gung fu because they thought it was easier.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

The taiji form takes about 20 min to complete in one flow, it’s 20 min of unbroken focus, think as if doing sanchin kata for 20 min

50 minutes for our long form on slowest setting. It’s brutal on the legs.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

How long is your Taiji form?

This 108 moves Taiji form only take 4 minutes and 42 seconds to finish.

I can do it faster or slower. But how many people learn it in both directions?

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

I can do it faster or slower. But how many people learn it in both directions?

I like the way he did Taiji. He finished his 108 moves Taiji form in 3 minutes and 42 seconds.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Yes that’s too fast, when gained more experience I agree variation of “speed” and footwork comes through but still with flow that would shorten the timeframe to about not less than 10min for the long form

If you follow the guideline that each Taiji move is either 1 inhale time, or 1 exhale time, 108 moves is equal to 54 breaths.

For example,

ward off - inhale,
pull back - exhale,
press forward - inhale,
push - exhale.

How slow can you breathe? A normal adult takes 12 - 20 breath per minutes. Assume your slow breathing rate is 10 breaths/minute, 54 breaths will only take 5.4 minutes.

Of course, if you don't follow this Taiji guideline and use more than 1 inhale, or 1 exhale for each Taiji move, that will be a different story.