Some ideas for defending against dogs

[Tez3]

Sadly these breeds have been banned because they are being used as fighting dogs in organised dog fights and also for badger baiting. The two South American breeds however have proved resistant to breeding out aggression and short tempers, they are also very big heavy dogs which makes them fairly unsafe as pets for normal families as opposed to dog handlers.

 

[Hyoho]

Tried to adopt a very large pitbull once. Took him out of a cage and put him on a leash. He saw another dog, ran and pulled me to the ground and dragged me 3 or 4 meters. Good job I didn't have the chain wrapped around my wrist.

I have two GSDs. They dont do anything unless told. They only bark when somebody lurks around the perimeter fence. That's partly why I have them. Wonderful pets. But as mentioned they do sense fear.

Like the dog whisperer teach humans how to deal with them and there are no problems.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Tried to adopt a very large pitbull once. Took him out of a cage and put him on a leash. He saw another dog, ran and pulled me to the ground and dragged me 3 or 4 meters. Good job I didn't have the chain wrapped around my wrist.

I have two GSDs. They dont do anything unless told. They only bark when somebody lurks around the perimeter fence. That's partly why I have them. Wonderful pets. But as mentioned they do sense fear.

Like the dog whisperer teach humans how to deal with them and there are no problems.

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That issue with the large pitbull is not a problem with the dog by breed. Any large dog that is high energy will do that if not trained. Some dogs are more easily trainable than others (by breed, and by individual).

EDIT: In my experience, there's a lack of braininess among pitbulls. I'm sure there are some smart ones somewhere, but two of the three dumbest dogs I've ever known were a pitbull and a pitbull mix. Both were among the most loving and lovable dogs I've ever met, too.

 

[Juany118]

The dogs aren't crazy they have been bred for aggression/guarding in the same way sheepdogs have been bred to work, their minds aren't twisted nor are their senses, quite the opposite, they are goal orientated and intelligent, confidence in others, man or dog won't worry them. Pit bulls and a few others (Controlling your dog in public - GOV.UK) are banned in the UK and will be put down if found.
Most of the problem with dogs is the owners, who cannot or will not train their dogs properly and often encourage aggression Too often it's a macho thing to have an aggressive dog.

The problem is the issue is not with the breeds themselves actually, it's rather with the owners. German Shepherds and Rottweilers have close to the same number of attacks. The problems, imo, are:
1. Any High Drive dog is going to require proper training and handling.
2. certain breeds become "faddish" in certain communities and people buy them without considering #1.
3. certain breeds are simply more powerful in the bite than others. So when #1 and 2 happen they are more likely to cause hospitalizations. Example Cockerspaniels bite more than almost any other breed BUT they don't cause as many hospitalizations.
4. media exposure or appearance thus causing reputation. As an example Tosa's have a reputation as Japanese fighting dogs but Rottweilers and German Shepherds have actually worse statistics with it comes to numbers of attacks.

An actual perfect example of this is the Dogo Argentino. It looks like an American Pitbull, is as strong (if not stronger) in a bite than an Pitbull BUT it was actually bred on purpose to be non-aggressive and gentle with people. They actually make good service dogs.

To ram #4 home, after doing so research I even discovered that the Dogo was added to the list before there was even a single one in the UK and there was only one Tosa puppy in the country at the time. Basically it was "they look like Pitbulls so ban them." That kind of legislation always irks me.

 

[Russian Whips]

I am not a "dog person" and clearly don't see the point of having a dog, especially big one in a city appartment or in the streets with many people and children. I believe it's unnecessary threat to the public and should be discouraged by legal means. Some people just cannot control even themselves and much less the dogs in their possession so they should not be allowed to own one. Then there are certains breeds that just have no reason to be in the city around people they can hurt. If all that was followed defense against dogs would not be even something worth much discussion. Stray dogs when they form big gangs are another big threat, and in such situation you want to have something big and heavy enough to keep them at a distance. Sjambok or cane seem perfect for this task.

 

[Juany118]

I am not a "dog person" and clearly don't see the point of having a dog, especially big one in a city appartment or in the streets with many people and children. I believe it's unnecessary threat to the public and should be discouraged by legal means. Some people just cannot control even themselves and much less the dogs in their possession so they should not be allowed to own one. Then there are certains breeds that just have no reason to be in the city around people they can hurt. If all that was followed defense against dogs would not be even something worth much discussion. Stray dogs when they form big gangs are another big threat, and in such situation you want to have something big and heavy enough to keep them at a distance. Sjambok or cane seem perfect for this task.

But aren't he issues you raise people issues? Can I sue Ford because an asshat bought one, was irresponsible and killed my wife in a crash? No. Ultimately, legally a Dog is property same as the car (this is actually a fact) so, imo, the responsibility for "bad things" should be on the owner, not the animal who had the misfortune to be purchased by said owner...

Note I have no dogs, my wife and I are the "crazy cat neighbors."

 

[Hyoho]

I am not a "dog person" and clearly don't see the point of having a dog, especially big one in a city appartment or in the streets with many people and children. I believe it's unnecessary threat to the public and should be discouraged by legal means. Some people just cannot control even themselves and much less the dogs in their possession so they should not be allowed to own one. Then there are certains breeds that just have no reason to be in the city around people they can hurt. If all that was followed defense against dogs would not be even something worth much discussion. Stray dogs when they form big gangs are another big threat, and in such situation you want to have something big and heavy enough to keep them at a distance. Sjambok or cane seem perfect for this task.

Well I live on the edge of a mountain jungle. I have already lost two dobermans with cobra bites. Mine are a deterrent as well as being pets. People here will climb in if they think you are an easy touch to steal things from outside.

I wish they were more aware here of how smart some dogs are. Kids will occasionally stand outside make silly dog noises to try and upset them and run off. What they dont realize is the dogs can smell them and remember. I can walk the dog up the road to go down into the jungle and if someone walks past that has done this in the past ? They know growl aggressively. also I have a high fence but if they wanted to they could jump it easily if upset and provoked.

They live outside in 1000 sq meters. It's 27c here all year round.

I throw a coconuts down the slopes and they bring it back in seconds. Wonderful strong animals and loving pets if you can give them the time they require, Trained to respond in Japanese.

I still love the signs that say "Never mind the dog, Look out for the owner" My partner shoots the flames out on candle on the fence at 50 meters. shot a cobra clean through the head. If anyone does ever try to get in? We are more than prepared.

They come around and shoot any strays and the Gates foundation has injected for two years now for free.

 

[Russian Whips]

But aren't he issues you raise people issues? Can I sue Ford because an asshat bought one, was irresponsible and killed my wife in a crash? No. Ultimately, legally a Dog is property same as the car (this is actually a fact) so, imo, the responsibility for "bad things" should be on the owner, not the animal who had the misfortune to be purchased by said owner...

Note I have no dogs, my wife and I are the "crazy cat neighbors."

Sure, they are people issues! My point is: not everybody should be allowed to have big dangerous dogs just like not everybody is allowed to own and drive a car. And some type of dogs clearly have no place in the city or arounf people, and some dogs should be treated same as owning a weapon and licensed accordingly.

 

[Tez3]

While the breeds are banned now those people who had them before the ban can keep them but with restrictions. I understand what you are saying about blanket bans but it's hard to legislate on each and every dog in the country so unfair as it is a ban was ordered. There simply isn't the money to test each dog for aggressive tendencies and bad temperament. The Dogos were added to the Act a few years later when there were some in the country, they weren't originally in the 1991 Act, which only applies to England and Wales by the way Scotland and Northern Ireland have a different system and laws.

We don't have gangs of dogs roaming around here nor do we have Rabies in the country, as I said before the dogs that do attack are the responsibility of bad owners. Living in a rural area the problem we have is dogs who chases and kill sheep, many dog owners put their pet into the car and drive up here to have a nice walk in the Dales, usually with the dog off the lead. The dogs see the sheep and chase them often savaging them or causing the ewes to abort. owners simply refuse to believe their beloved pooch will do such a thing but they do, that lovely cuddly dog at home turns into a killer. The owners are then devastated when the farmer has shot their dog dead which legally they are allowed to do. there is also heartbreak for the farmers as they have to cope with the aftermath of savaged animals.https://www.dalesman.co.uk/dog-owne...d-while-walking-in-yorkshire-countryside/6487

 

[Juany118]

While the breeds are banned now those people who had them before the ban can keep them but with restrictions. I understand what you are saying about blanket bans but it's hard to legislate on each and every dog in the country so unfair as it is a ban was ordered. There simply isn't the money to test each dog for aggressive tendencies and bad temperament. The Dogos were added to the Act a few years later when there were some in the country, they weren't originally in the 1991 Act, which only applies to England and Wales by the way Scotland and Northern Ireland have a different system and laws.

We don't have gangs of dogs roaming around here nor do we have Rabies in the country, as I said before the dogs that do attack are the responsibility of bad owners. Living in a rural area the problem we have is dogs who chases and kill sheep, many dog owners put their pet into the car and drive up here to have a nice walk in the Dales, usually with the dog off the lead. The dogs see the sheep and chase them often savaging them or causing the ewes to abort. owners simply refuse to believe their beloved pooch will do such a thing but they do, that lovely cuddly dog at home turns into a killer. The owners are then devastated when the farmer has shot their dog dead which legally they are allowed to do. there is also heartbreak for the farmers as they have to cope with the aftermath of savaged animals.https://www.dalesman.co.uk/dog-owne...d-while-walking-in-yorkshire-countryside/6487

My main issue was a ban without data. I may have personal issues with global bans in general but really my issue with the ban you linked was that at least half of that list was clearly based on appearance and not actual data.

I respect laws, even when they ban things, but the Vulcan in me wants objective data for the individual things banned, it's simply how I am wired and dang does that result in "interesting" conversations with the wife

Btw we have laws in the US that are similar to the one you noted on a number of topics, ...that wasnt a shot a UK law. Laws like that irk me regardless. Heck I even have to enforce some of them as it is my duty, but it is irksome nonetheless.

 

[Juany118]

Sure, they are people issues! My point is: not everybody should be allowed to have big dangerous dogs just like not everybody is allowed to own and drive a car. And some type of dogs clearly have no place in the city or arounf people, and some dogs should be treated same as owning a weapon and licensed accordingly.

I would actually say there is no domesticated dog breed that has "no place among people". As for in a city I would narrow down to what parts. I lived in different sections in Philadelphia. Some, imo are not suited to dogs that "need to run" (Port Richmond for one) but size is not the Judge of that in dogs actually. However in the Chestnut Hill section, there were people who had enough space so their dog could run in wide circles to utter exhaustion.

 

[Tez3]

My main issue was a ban without data. I may have personal issues with global bans in general but really my issue with the ban you linked was that at least half of that list was clearly based on appearance and not actual data.

I respect laws, even when they ban things, but the Vulcan in me wants objective data for the individual things banned, it's simply how I am wired and dang does that result in "interesting" conversations with the wife

I can understand that, there's several problems though and no one answer that isn't going to cost a fortune. Dog fighting and badger baiting is a problem, we have family pets being stolen for use in training and badger setts being dug up to get the badgers. The breeds with the reputation for being aggressive are being bought and bred by those who want a weapon or something macho on the end of a lead, obviously these dogs aren't trained properly. The police are stretched, we have two major terrorist warnings in place one from the IS types and one from the IRA, along with 'normal' crime. The police aren't equipped to go around checking all dogs to see if they are safe or not. those particular breeds were 'picked on' because they appeal to a certain type of owner mostly and could become a danger. It may be a poor law but frankly I don't think anyone can think of a better way at the moment. The RSPCA is supposed to investigate dog fighting but has also turned into a political lobby group which rakes in money so seems a bit off.
A terrifying encounter with the brutal world of dog-fighting

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I am not a "dog person" and clearly don't see the point of having a dog, especially big one in a city appartment or in the streets with many people and children. I believe it's unnecessary threat to the public and should be discouraged by legal means. Some people just cannot control even themselves and much less the dogs in their possession so they should not be allowed to own one. Then there are certains breeds that just have no reason to be in the city around people they can hurt. If all that was followed defense against dogs would not be even something worth much discussion. Stray dogs when they form big gangs are another big threat, and in such situation you want to have something big and heavy enough to keep them at a distance. Sjambok or cane seem perfect for this task.

I've lived around and owned dogs my entire life, including several over the 75-lb. mark. I grew up in neighborhoods where dogs were allowed to roam freely around children. I've never been bitten, and have only witnessed people being bitten who stepped into a dog fight. Large dogs are not a threat to people if treated well.

 

[Tez3]

I've lived around and owned dogs my entire life, including several over the 75-lb. mark. I grew up in neighborhoods where dogs were allowed to roam freely around children. I've never been bitten, and have only witnessed people being bitten who stepped into a dog fight. Large dogs are not a threat to people if treated well.

Actually I dislike small dogs, they are yappy, trip you up and are far more likely to bite you.
We've also had retrievers as gun dogs, we also had a German Shepherd we took in at six months old because the owner couldn't 'manage her,' too boisterous he said, she wasn't she just needed exercise. We had 13 lovely years with her.

I am not a "dog person" and clearly don't see the point of having a dog, especially big one in a city appartment or in the streets with many people and children. I believe it's unnecessary threat to the public and should be discouraged by legal means

Dogs as such aren't a danger to the public or in private, we have guide dogs here for the blind, hearing dogs for the deaf, dogs who can warn when epileptic attacks are about to happen, dogs interact with autistic children they provide comfort, companionship, safety. Around our way farmers need them for working the sheep, police dogs are invaluable. Ex Forces personnel with PTSD find dogs a huge help as well. Dogs all in all provide far more than they detract.
As I've said before we don't have problems with packs of dogs here and I really think you are having a love affair with this whip/sjambok thing, they are just tools, not objects to be gloated over (or to have endless videos posted on, I've seen the same one from you on several threads now)

 

[Russian Whips]

I've lived around and owned dogs my entire life, including several over the 75-lb. mark. I grew up in neighborhoods where dogs were allowed to roam freely around children. I've never been bitten, and have only witnessed people being bitten who stepped into a dog fight. Large dogs are not a threat to people if treated well.

Then what's the whole point of discussion? Defense against a dog for a farmer looks pretty simple to me: walk around with a shotgun and if you see a strange dog approaching shoot it down before it attacks.

 

[PhotonGuy]

I heard that if you get bitten by a dog you want to push into the bite. If you try to pull away all that does is result in further damage from the bite as that's how a dog bite works, it bites onto its opponent and as the opponent pulls away it causes tearing, so the thing you want to do is push into the bite not pull away. I don't have any experience working with dogs and I claim no authority on whether or not this would be effective but Im checking with anybody who does have experience with dogs if this would work.

 

[Russian Whips]

Actually I dislike small dogs, they are yappy, trip you up and are far more likely to bite you.
We've also had retrievers as gun dogs, we also had a German Shepherd we took in at six months old because the owner couldn't 'manage her,' too boisterous he said, she wasn't she just needed exercise. We had 13 lovely years with her.



Dogs as such aren't a danger to the public or in private, we have guide dogs here for the blind, hearing dogs for the deaf, dogs who can warn when epileptic attacks are about to happen, dogs interact with autistic children they provide comfort, companionship, safety. Around our way farmers need them for working the sheep, police dogs are invaluable. Ex Forces personnel with PTSD find dogs a huge help as well. Dogs all in all provide far more than they detract.
As I've said before we don't have problems with packs of dogs here and I really think you are having a love affair with this whip/sjambok thing, they are just tools, not objects to be gloated over (or to have endless videos posted on, I've seen the same one from you on several threads now)

I belive that each breed of dogs have been breeded to serve specific purpose. You understand what I mean. Life n the city has no room for those original purposes and therefore no room for most dogs breeds except for little types, with whom no "defense against the dogs" issues are relevant.

 

[Russian Whips]

I heard that if you get bitten by a dog you want to push into the bite. If you try to pull away all that does is result in further damage from the bite as that's how a dog bite works, it bites onto its opponent and as the opponent pulls away it causes tearing, so the thing you want to do is push into the bite not pull away. I don't have any experience working with dogs and I claim no authority on whether or not this would be effective but Im checking with anybody who does have experience with dogs if this would work.

Sounds very much like common sense idea to me. Better still not let the bastard bite you!

 

[Tez3]

Then what's the whole point of discussion? Defense against a dog for a farmer looks pretty simple to me: walk around with a shotgun and if you see a strange dog approaching shoot it down before it attacks.

No, you cannot go around destroying animals just because they might do some damage.

I belive that each breed of dogs have been breeded to serve specific purpose. You understand what I mean. Life n the city has no room for those original purposes and therefore no room for most dogs breeds except for little types, with whom no "defense against the dogs" issues are relevant.

I don't know what your cities are like but here we have huge open areas in our cities, not just parks but vast common land, we have rivers, canal and lakes which all have areas where you can walk around them. people have gardens too that are big enough for dogs. I don't think you know a lot about dogs. If you think small dogs can't be dangerous then you are mistaken. Three-week-old baby dies after being bitten by dog in Sunderland - BBC News
Toddler's face savaged by pet dog

 

[Juany118]

No, you cannot go around destroying animals just because they might do some damage.





I don't know what your cities are like but here we have huge open areas in our cities, not just parks but vast common land, we have rivers, canal and lakes which all have areas where you can walk around them. people have gardens too that are big enough for dogs. I don't think you know a lot about dogs. If you think small dogs can't be dangerous then you are mistaken. Three-week-old baby dies after being bitten by dog in Sunderland - BBC News
Toddler's face savaged by pet dog

We have such places. Heck some cities have actually started putting fenced in "dog parks" to address the paranoid. Tbh I should actually be one of the paranoid. As a kid growing up our neighbors had a German Shepherd. They trained it to be mean, were I mean to be a guard dog, themselves. When the owner took the dog for a walk he had a ratan cane and wore a welding glove. On my sister's 8th birthday we were roller skating down the sidewalk. As I passed the dog it took hold of my calf. Luckily only have was torn off so it was sewn back on.

Thing is that was the owners issue. They thought a "guard dog" meant mean dog and decided they could "train" it themselves. Every time I find "mean dogs" at work, size is not a factor actually. The only factors are high drive (many small dogs are high drive, hunting and herding dogs don't need to be big, just look at Corgis and Jack Russells) and bad owners.

I also totally get your prior point about LE not being able to "police" or investigate every dog owner but here I think we end up with a legal/cultural difference. In the US we have the 4th Amendment.

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects,[a] against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

Dogs are considered property under the law so, as an example, in my State we have a dangerous dog law. To be defined at such you need 2 attacks AND then the Law Enforcement Official (usually a Humane Officer or SPCA Officer) has to initiate a court proceeding. If the Judge rules the Animal is indeed dangerous then the owner has one of three options.

1. Spend A LOT of money having a kennel installed on their property (concrete slab, chain link fencing of a specific height etc.
2. Find a place that will take the dog. There are rescue organizations in the US that will take such dogs and try to "reeducate" them.
3. Have it put down.

It is actually interesting just home many things in the US are different simply because of the Bill of Rights in the Constitution, how far their influence stretches.