Some grappling advice please.

[Hanzou]

The only problem here is that I am on the wrong side. Now by changing my grip to the right hand I can slide my left hand under and put pressure on the elbow like a figure four but in doing so I give him the opportunity to reach over and grab me with his left hand unless I was really fast.

Reach over and grab you and do what exactly? He can grab you all he wants, but he isn't stopping that arm break. Your body weight should keep his shoulder pinned to the floor.

As for wrong side of grips, that shouldn't be a problem, you can swap the grip once you're in position because its your body weight plus two arms versus his single arm pinned to the floor. I'm also pretty sure you can reverse grip on that key lock and still get the break. However don't quote me on that. I would need to do it on someone to be sure.

 

[drop bear]

The only problem here is that I am on the wrong side. Now by changing my grip to the right hand I can slide my left hand under and put pressure on the elbow like a figure four but in doing so I give him the opportunity to reach over and grab me with his left hand unless I was really fast.

Yes.
If you went for the figure four straight arm bar you would be giving him your back.

 

[K-man]

Don't look for the lock… you're not there yet. You really need to change the position first… which is easier to show than to describe…

Cool, so isn't it time you popped over for a visit? You can show me first hand. Plus it's time we had another coffee!

 

[Chris Parker]

Ha, sure! I'm working late next Thursday, but could probably make it the one after… or are you on Wednesday nights these days?

 

[Chris Parker]

Alternately, I'm teaching tomorrow night, if you wanted to pop by…

 

[Hanzou]

All of this is about controlling him with your body and not your arms.

Exactly. Position before submission. Side control, mount, scarf hold, etc. You need the dominant position first before you attempt an armbar or shoulder lock.

 

[Chris Parker]

Hmm… I agree that the position needs to be changed… but I don't know that I'd suggest any of the ones you're mentioning, with the possible exception of scarf… the others… have issues in this context.

 

[K-man]

Ha, sure! I'm working late next Thursday, but could probably make it the one after… or are you on Wednesday nights these days?

Thursday after is fine, that's a Krav night. Wednesday is karate and it was actually in the karate class that this arose.

Alternately, I'm teaching tomorrow night, if you wanted to pop by…

And we have a houseful of folk coming for dinner. I'm not sure my marriage would survive if I took another night out to train.

 

[Chris Parker]

Awesome, Wednesday I'm free.

 

[drop bear]

He couldn't reach my eyes either so that wasn't an issue and while I had weight on his lower chest he couldn't turn.
Again I would have to relinquish my position which was already tenuous. In reality I think my best option was to jump up and run but I was just wondering if I was missing an opportunity for a lock.

He should have been able to hip escape straight out of that. I will give it a play.

I assume he was trying to pull guard.

If you pop on to your knees but continue to drive your shoulder. You can move and maintain pressure.

In fact jump on to your toes and apex him. (push you shoulder or head into his body while driving him forwards) Then just walk your feet around

 

[K-man]

Exactly. Position before submission. Side control, mount, scarf hold, etc. You need the dominant position first before you attempt an armbar or shoulder lock.

I might have a chance to try the scarf hold in the morning at aikido. Otherwise I'll have to wait until next Tuesday to try it out. But I can see how it could work but I'd have to control the knife arm with my leg. How secure would that be?

 

[Chris Parker]

That's not how you'd control the knife…

 

[K-man]

He should have been able to hip escape straight out of that. I will give it a play.

I assume he was trying to pull guard.

If you pop on to your knees but continue to drive your shoulder. You can move and maintain pressure.

In fact jump on to your toes and apex him. (push you shoulder or head into his body while driving him forwards) Then just walk your feet around

Yeah! I didn't think of doing that at the time. And yes, at different times he was trying to get me in his guard but I kept out of it.

 

[K-man]

That's not how you'd control the knife…

That was my thought too. So how do you control the knife and get a scarf hold?

 

[drop bear]

Yeah! I didn't think of doing that at the time. And yes, at different times he was trying to get me in his guard but I kept out of it.

00:40. As a guard pass that apex and shimmy.

 

[K-man]

00:40. As a guard pass that apex and shimmy.

Even so, it was hard enough for this guy to achieve it and that's without having to worry about the knife.

Guys, thanks for the input. It's way past my bedtime and I have a 7am class in the morning. I'll look forward to discussing it further tomorrow.

 

[Chris Parker]

That was my thought too. So how do you control the knife and get a scarf hold?

Again, not easy to explain, but can be shown… in essence, it's to do with particular pressures, and centring properly with your hara…

 

[Hanzou]

I might have a chance to try the scarf hold in the morning at aikido. Otherwise I'll have to wait until next Tuesday to try it out. But I can see how it could work but I'd have to control the knife arm with my leg. How secure would that be?

I wouldn't suggest the scarf hold unless you're a very experienced grappler. I listed it because it's an option, and a damn good one if you know what you're doing. You can also perform a variety of painful locks from that position.

That said, Side control with the arm bar gives you the most control, and is frankly easier to achieve from your starting position.

 

[Hanzou]

Hmm… I agree that the position needs to be changed… but I don't know that I'd suggest any of the ones you're mentioning, with the possible exception of scarf… the others… have issues in this context.

Well what's the context? The positions I mentioned are far superior to his position in the photo.

 

[Chris Parker]

Sure… but not so good against a blade.