Some grappling advice please.

[drop bear]

You couldn't work up to his head?

Pop up to a knee on belly?

 

[Tony Dismukes]

If I'm correctly understanding the position, it would be far from ideal for managing any sort of armlock. I might have some general advice on improving the position, but I'll wait until you post your photo in case I'm on the wrong track.

 

[ShotoNoob]

If I'm correctly understanding the position, it would be far from ideal for managing any sort of armlock. I might have some general advice on improving the position, but I'll wait until you post your photo in case I'm on the wrong track.

Yeah, it seems the knife arm may be pinned or trapped; yet and additional move jeopardizes that....

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

I will wait till I see the photo before giving an idea of what I would do.

I will say this though it is not much fun to be on the ground and grappling with a knife but if you have to do it I would prefer to be in any position that has me on top.

 

[Buka]

What a great use of this forum.

 

[K-man]

OK. Remember, this is just a recreation of where I think we were. My partner was using his legs to stop me getting further up and I was having difficulty reaching his face as he could arch out of range, plus he had his left arm available to push me away.

Don't you just hate photos from above?

 

[Hanzou]

Perhaps I'm missing the point of this exercise, but he really shouldn't be able to stop your scramble into a superior position. Is there a reason why your hand is around his throat, and not being used to better control his body? Also why aren't you utilizing your superior mobility to bypass his knees? Why are you splayed out next to him?

 

[K-man]

Perhaps I'm missing the point of this exercise, but he really shouldn't be able to stop your scramble into a superior position. Is there a reason why your hand is around his throat, and not being used to better control his body? Also why aren't you utilizing your superior mobility to bypass his knees? Why are you splayed out next to him?

Well, that's the reason for my question. I couldn't get to the position I was trying for. He was using his legs to keep me away. As I said, it is a recreation. I was trying to reach his eyes or neck to distract him so I could get a better position. It didn't work. Now, under different circumstances I may have had better mobility but holding the that knife hand changes the dynamic. The splayed legs was to stabilise my position. The guy in this picture was not the guy I was grappling with. He was at least as strong as me physically and considerably younger. I'm not really asking about how I could have bettered my position unless you can see a glaringly obvious way. I am asking, is there an armlock that I could apply to get the knife.

 

[Hanzou]

Well, that's the reason for my question. I couldn't get to the position I was trying for. He was using his legs to keep me away. As I said, it is a recreation. I was trying to reach his eyes or neck to distract him so I could get a better position. It didn't work. Now, under different circumstances I may have had better mobility but holding the that knife hand changes the dynamic. The splayed legs was to stabilise my position. The guy in this picture was not the guy I was grappling with. He was at least as strong as me physically and considerably younger. I'm not really asking about how I could have bettered my position unless you can see a glaringly obvious way. I am asking, is there an armlock that I could apply to get the knife.

Well yeah, you can better your position by using your right hand and arm to better control his body and pull yourself up instead of going for a throat hold, or trying to distract him by going for his eyes or nose. You don't have the position to pull that off, because you're too far away. Additionally, stretching your body like that weakens your base considerably, and is the main reason he can move away from you.

Have you tried gripping his right shoulder with your right hand while placing your forearm and elbow on his chest? You should be able to pull yourself further up, and better control his upper body.

 

[Mephisto]

If his arm was out like that you might have been able to move up quickly and put your shin on his arm in an impromptu bicep slicer variation, but I wasn't there, he may have easily taken your back if you went for that depending on what your right hand was doing.

With unpadded or low intensity knife play I'll use shoulder checks to simulate a head shot. The idea is If I can hit the shoulder I can most likely hit the head too. I can shoulder check at full speed without worrying about a broken nose or accidental eye gouge. It also removes the uncertainty pulling a puch can encounter. When pulling a punch sometimes it's hard to tell if the hit really would have landed or if the opponent evaded just enough, a miss by a hair is still a miss. The shoulder check gives some impact so the opponent has to react and you can add a little hesitancy to the spar/drill. Pulled shots can be shrugged off, especially by new guys, if shoulder checks get shrugged off you can up the power to wake the attacker up to the fact that he's getting hit.

I almost always use strikes when defending the blade, even if it's just the shoulder check for reasons already cited by others and I'm sure the op is aware of. Of course one thing I've noticed is guys who normally attack with the blade only focus on attacking with the blade but as soon as you fire a punch they'll bring the blade and punches too. But if you strike first and catch him off guard it's may be enough to get the upper hand before he starts punching back.

 

[K-man]

Well yeah, you can better your position by using your right hand and arm to better control his body and pull yourself up instead of going for a throat hold, or trying to distract him by going for his eyes or nose. You don't have the position to pull that off, because you're too far away. Additionally, stretching your body like that weakens your base considerably, and is the main reason he can move away from you.

Have you tried gripping his right shoulder with your right hand while placing your forearm and elbow on his chest? You should be able to pull yourself further up, and better control his upper body.

I'm not sure if I tried that or not. Certainly he was attempting to roll and he was using his legs. Perhaps if you looked at it from the side of my partner, what would you do to prevent me obtaining a dominant position? That may be closer to what he was actually doing to stop me gaining an advantage. In the end I just went for the knife but I feel I may have missed an opportunity to lock his arm.

 

[Chris Parker]

OK. Remember, this is just a recreation of where I think we were. My partner was using his legs to stop me getting further up and I was having difficulty reaching his face as he could arch out of range, plus he had his left arm available to push me away.

View attachment 19232
Don't you just hate photos from above?

Hey mate,

Yeah… you're gonna need to change position before you can do much from there… and pretty quickly too, honestly.

 

[drop bear]

I'm not sure if I tried that or not. Certainly he was attempting to roll and he was using his legs. Perhaps if you looked at it from the side of my partner, what would you do to prevent me obtaining a dominant position? That may be closer to what he was actually doing to stop me gaining an advantage. In the end I just went for the knife but I feel I may have missed an opportunity to lock his arm.

Knife guy pushes your head (or gouges your eyes,same thing) turns inwards and gets on to his knees and then stands up. If you are still hanging off the arm. Gnp untill you don't.

 

[drop bear]

In your case k man you slip your legs out so you are making a T shape with both bodies. Either a basic side control or a scarf hold position.

 

[Hanzou]

I'm not sure if I tried that or not. Certainly he was attempting to roll and he was using his legs. Perhaps if you looked at it from the side of my partner, what would you do to prevent me obtaining a dominant position? That may be closer to what he was actually doing to stop me gaining an advantage. In the end I just went for the knife but I feel I may have missed an opportunity to lock his arm.

I would do exactly what he's doing. It's actually a really good defense, because your concern about the knife essentially takes your left arm out of play because you have to maintain control of his right arm, he's also keeping his knees up, making it more difficult to pass your legs over his to achieve a dominant top position, and it gives him mobility. The best thing you can do is control his upper body, pass into a top position, and then attempt to isolate/lock his arm.

You could isolate his arm without passing to top position, but then you run the risk of him rolling back towards you and taking your back. Taking top position prevents that from happening, but you need to be further up to do it, hence why I suggested pulling yourself up while controlling his upper body. Once your knees reach his hips, you should be able to move into top position, and there's a variety of passes to do exactly that.

Once you achieve top, you can attempt this lock;

 

[K-man]

I would do exactly what he's doing. It's actually a really good defense, because your concern about the knife essentially takes your left arm out of play because you have to maintain control of his right arm, he's also keeping his knees up, making it more difficult to pass your legs over his to achieve a dominant top position, and it gives him mobility. The best thing you can do is control his upper body, pass into a top position, and then attempt to isolate/lock his arm.

You could isolate his arm without passing to top position, but then you run the risk of him rolling back towards you and taking your back. Taking top position prevents that from happening, but you need to be further up to do it, hence why I suggested pulling yourself up while controlling his upper body. Once your knees reach his hips, you should be able to move into top position, and there's a variety of passes to do exactly that.

Once you achieve top, you can attempt this lock;

The only problem here is that I am on the wrong side. Now by changing my grip to the right hand I can slide my left hand under and put pressure on the elbow like a figure four but in doing so I give him the opportunity to reach over and grab me with his left hand unless I was really fast.

 

[drop bear]

All of this is about controlling him with your body and not your arms.

 

[K-man]

Knife guy pushes your head (or gouges your eyes,same thing) turns inwards and gets on to his knees and then stands up. If you are still hanging off the arm. Gnp untill you don't.

He couldn't reach my eyes either so that wasn't an issue and while I had weight on his lower chest he couldn't turn.

In your case k man you slip your legs out so you are making a T shape with both bodies. Either a basic side control or a scarf hold position.

Again I would have to relinquish my position which was already tenuous. In reality I think my best option was to jump up and run but I was just wondering if I was missing an opportunity for a lock.

 

[Chris Parker]

Don't look for the lock… you're not there yet. You really need to change the position first… which is easier to show than to describe…

 

[K-man]

All of this is about controlling him with your body and not your arms.

True, and in part I was able to do that. The problem was I couldn't move further up.