From what I can find in the Dominican Republic it's a mix of their Taino, European and African cultures that make up the populations background. The techniques come from these but also from the guys currently fighting making up new stuff or their own styles.
So, Sword Duels do still happen nowadays?
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From what I can find in the Dominican Republic it's a mix of their Taino, European and African cultures that make up the populations background. The techniques come from these but also from the guys currently fighting making up new stuff or their own styles.
Looks like this was getting heated 
I just typed in "street machete fight" on tube and found videos in Mexico, Morocco, Germany, Trinidad, Thailand, Dominican Republic and the Philippines. And that was just on the first page. My step-dad was a fireman/EMT in Alameda, CA and saw blade wounds almost everyweek for 20+ years. My sister-in-law is an ER nurse here in Metro Manila were I now live and she sees multiple blade wound victims daily.. People use what's available when they want to be violent - it doesn't mean they necessarily trained in martial arts. In the US the number one tool used in homicide after guns & blades is a hammer. Other than Thor, I know of no one claiming to be a master of the hammer.
Some countries just have more individuals who have kept alive combative and defensive blade culture. It's never the art, its the person. And even then it depends on what they are fighting for.
I've been researching the historical and cultural influences on Filipino Martial Arts since the late 80's. I'm still running across stuff I had never heard of. I have a friend based in Belgium who is deep into HEMA Historical European Martial Arts: he's also master of the Montante a 2-handed 5'6" blade used for multiple opponents. Before him, i had never heard of this weapon used by the Spanish. It is interesting to note that a number of former Spanish colonies still have instructors of their blade cultures - whether indigenous and/or Spanish influenced.
Here's a cool sample of something he found. During the Sangley Rebellion in 1603, the Spanish forces consisted of a core of Spanish troops, supplemented by Japanese mercenaries and Pampangan troops. Here is a short passage describing them in combat:
"During this pause, a thousand Pampangan Indians entered the city, armed with arquebuses and pikes. Then, sallying forth to fight with the enemy, along with some Spaniards who led them and urged them on, they killed more than a thousand Sangleys."
Original text: En este interin entraron desorro en la ciudad mil indios Pampangos arcabuzeros y piqueros, y saliendo a pelear con los enemigos con algunos Españoles que los capitaneavan y animavan, mataron mas de mil Sangleyes…
Source: Primera parte de los veinte i un libros rituales i monarchia Indiana, by Juan de Torquemada, p. 805 (Madrid, 1615)
He's always finding new stuff. Sometime it leads me to find things that others in my research communities that I have never seen. Sometimes it has me rethink my hypothesis. Just because we've never seen something doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
Lastly duels, were something for upper and middle class folks. It often dealt with honor. Watch the movie, "The Duelist" which is historically correct based on a real life challenge that fought multiple times of years. Poor folks just fight. I've seen less than a handful of street altercations with blades. They are not romantic, stylistic or even pretty. They are common and happen all over the world.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I just typed in "street machete fight" on tube and found videos in Mexico, Morocco, Germany, Trinidad, Thailand, Dominican Republic and the Philippines. And that was just on the first page. My step-dad was a fireman/EMT in Alameda, CA and saw blade wounds almost everyweek for 20+ years. My sister-in-law is an ER nurse here in Metro Manila were I now live and she sees multiple blade wound victims daily.. People use what's available when they want to be violent - it doesn't mean they necessarily trained in martial arts. In the US the number one tool used in homicide after guns & blades is a hammer. Other than Thor, I know of no one claiming to be a master of the hammer.Some countries just have more individuals who have kept alive combative and defensive blade culture. It's never the art, its the person. And even then it depends on what they are fighting for.
I've been researching the historical and cultural influences on Filipino Martial Arts since the late 80's. I'm still running across stuff I had never heard of. I have a friend based in Belgium who is deep into HEMA Historical European Martial Arts: he's also master of the Montante a 2-handed 5'6" blade used for multiple opponents. Before him, i had never heard of this weapon used by the Spanish. It is interesting to note that a number of former Spanish colonies still have instructors of their blade cultures - whether indigenous and/or Spanish influenced.
Here's a cool sample of something he found. During the Sangley Rebellion in 1603, the Spanish forces consisted of a core of Spanish troops, supplemented by Japanese mercenaries and Pampangan troops. Here is a short passage describing them in combat:
"During this pause, a thousand Pampangan Indians entered the city, armed with arquebuses and pikes. Then, sallying forth to fight with the enemy, along with some Spaniards who led them and urged them on, they killed more than a thousand Sangleys."
Original text: En este interin entraron desorro en la ciudad mil indios Pampangos arcabuzeros y piqueros, y saliendo a pelear con los enemigos con algunos Españoles que los capitaneavan y animavan, mataron mas de mil Sangleyes…
Source: Primera parte de los veinte i un libros rituales i monarchia Indiana, by Juan de Torquemada, p. 805 (Madrid, 1615)
He's always finding new stuff. Sometime it leads me to find things that others in my research communities that I have never seen. Sometimes it has me rethink my hypothesis. Just because we've never seen something doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
Lastly duels, were something for upper and middle class folks. It often dealt with honor. Watch the movie, "The Duelist" which is historically correct based on a real life challenge that fought multiple times of years. Poor folks just fight. I've seen less than a handful of street altercations with blades. They are not romantic, stylistic or even pretty. They are common and happen all over the world.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Hyoho
2nd Black Belt
The videos are not too good at all. They are clearly not representative of the skills of a provincial Filipino. City dwellers don't do what my guy did over the last two days. Cleared over 3000 sq meters of jungle over 2 meters high with a bolo. He also dismembers animals in record time. These guys do this 'every day' and do more cutting in one day than I ever did doing kendo suburi in a week. Using anything available is exactly what Kobudo is about. Real Budo is "not nice". Hadn't you noticed that a lot of the adapted weapons are agricultural tools?
crazydiamond
Purple Belt
Part of my training includes FMA and FMA of course includes of weapons training. Sometimes I think - why am I training to deal with weapon fighting (especially long weapons) here in the US? But then yes..... from Machetes to baseball bats the attacks happen right here in the good old USA.
Looks like this was getting heated
Some countries just have more individuals who have kept alive combative and defensive blade culture. It's never the art, its the person. And even then it depends on what they are fighting for.
I've been researching the historical and cultural influences on Filipino Martial Arts since the late 80's. I'm still running across stuff I had never heard of. I have a friend based in Belgium who is deep into HEMA Historical European Martial Arts: he's also master of the Montante a 2-handed 5'6" blade used for multiple opponents. Before him, i had never heard of this weapon used by the Spanish. It is interesting to note that a number of former Spanish colonies still have instructors of their blade cultures - whether indigenous and/or Spanish influenced.
Here's a cool sample of something he found. During the Sangley Rebellion in 1603, the Spanish forces consisted of a core of Spanish troops, supplemented by Japanese mercenaries and Pampangan troops. Here is a short passage describing them in combat:
"During this pause, a thousand Pampangan Indians entered the city, armed with arquebuses and pikes. Then, sallying forth to fight with the enemy, along with some Spaniards who led them and urged them on, they killed more than a thousand Sangleys."
Original text: En este interin entraron desorro en la ciudad mil indios Pampangos arcabuzeros y piqueros, y saliendo a pelear con los enemigos con algunos Españoles que los capitaneavan y animavan, mataron mas de mil Sangleyes…
Source: Primera parte de los veinte i un libros rituales i monarchia Indiana, by Juan de Torquemada, p. 805 (Madrid, 1615)
He's always finding new stuff. Sometime it leads me to find things that others in my research communities that I have never seen. Sometimes it has me rethink my hypothesis. Just because we've never seen something doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
Lastly duels, were something for upper and middle class folks. It often dealt with honor. Watch the movie, "The Duelist" which is historically correct based on a real life challenge that fought multiple times of years. Poor folks just fight. I've seen less than a handful of street altercations with blades. They are not romantic, stylistic or even pretty. They are common and happen all over the world.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I think it's no mystery that injuries from blades happen all over. Knife wounds etc. Most of the time it is someone stabbing someone else that doesn't have a knife...an unarmed person. What I think sets the Dominican thing apart is that BOTH the people fighting are armed with swords (machetes which is really a sword when used like that) and they are squaring up to one another like it is medieval times or something.
I can see where two people could go at it with knives once in a while in certain places around the world but these people are fighting with swords. Again, sure it happens in other places rarely, but there is a CRAZY amount of videos of it coming out of the Dominican Republic. There has to be more to it...I highly doubt it's a new phenomenon. Check out this one...it is really insane:
Hyoho
2nd Black Belt
They are just flailing away like idiots and dont even close the distance to really attack. And you even started another thread on this? Blades in other cultures are both agricultural tool and weapons if need be. I fail to see any relationship to this and martial arts.
Do I sense that you feel threatened by this? Your Filipino stuff you talk about wouldn't work against these people...because it is practiced in a gym to get peoples money. Try your hand against someone who is ALSO holding a sword and it would look similar to this...or you'd end up dead. Close the distance? They were trying to kill each other, couldn't you hear the blades clanging and hitting the concrete steps? These videos are the nice ones, here is one where a guy almost cuts off a hand/arm while fighting a mob and a guy with a huge stick (guy with stick gets severely injured by sword):
People in the Dominican Republic often die by the machete. You don't think there are people there that have developed a system to stay alive?
Where is your proof from the Philippines (sword duels)? I think it is all BS. There are no videos because it doesn't happen. Unless you are of course talking about using a knife on an unarmed person.
I love people like you that think martial arts would look like the movies. I hope you never have to find out the truth in real life, you will be sorely disappointed.
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...and please keep bringing up the agricultural thing. They are cutting human beings not trees. If you haven't noticed yet, most theses videos are from the city, all concrete. They are using the machete as a weapon not just a farm tool that happens to turn into a weapon. I really hope you can find ONE video from the Philippines of two people dueling with swords. Because even if you did I would come back at you with TWENTY from the Dominican Republic. They might have fought in the past in the Philippines with swords...but it doesn't happen now. They just try to make money teaching it. Can't blame them for that but they don't fight with swords anymore, and in the Dominican Republic they still do. It is that simple.
Hyoho
2nd Black Belt
So you are just going on and on and on telling us that Dominicans are duelling sword fighters using videos of uncontrolled stupidity and street violence?
Why would I feel threatened by anything? I have no vested interest in FMA and no knowledge of money making clubs. FMA is part of the curriculum in some University PhysEd where I teach. I dont even practice it! I do know what I see around me and what the average provincials ability is with a blade and that cutting objects like Japanese tameshigiri tests not only a blade but the skill of its wielder. To repeat an iaijutsu mentor, "We should practice with a blade to hone our skills and if, if ever the need arises defend ourselves". Kids here take blades to school and respect a blade for what it is. Only yesterday my caregiver killed a 2 meter cobra in the garden. And for sure they move a bit faster than your 'dominican warriors'.
I really don't need to spend all my time posting videos on here to prove anything. If you are such an expert on these matters and other arts I suggest you fill in your profile to back it up.
P.S. Wasn't the injured guy in your last video shouting police police? They have chairs, wood they throw anything they can lays their hands on. It's NOT a duel.
Why would I feel threatened by anything? I have no vested interest in FMA and no knowledge of money making clubs. FMA is part of the curriculum in some University PhysEd where I teach. I dont even practice it! I do know what I see around me and what the average provincials ability is with a blade and that cutting objects like Japanese tameshigiri tests not only a blade but the skill of its wielder. To repeat an iaijutsu mentor, "We should practice with a blade to hone our skills and if, if ever the need arises defend ourselves". Kids here take blades to school and respect a blade for what it is. Only yesterday my caregiver killed a 2 meter cobra in the garden. And for sure they move a bit faster than your 'dominican warriors'.
I really don't need to spend all my time posting videos on here to prove anything. If you are such an expert on these matters and other arts I suggest you fill in your profile to back it up.
P.S. Wasn't the injured guy in your last video shouting police police? They have chairs, wood they throw anything they can lays their hands on. It's NOT a duel.
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and this? The Haitian Machete Fencing Project
Actually, they really are duels. Look at these videos...two men in each video fighting each other with swords. That's a duel:
This book is full of duels and other situations where people from the Dominican Republic fight with swords:
http://www.amazon.com/Machete-Parad...1TY_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1436037738&sr=1-1
You have a picture of Miyamoto Musashi as a child and a quote supposedly attributed to him. You should study his stuff more, he often fought with whatever was around him. Including pieces of wood. I am sure if there was a video camera back then it wouldn't look very "pretty."
and this? The Haitian Machete Fencing Project
Haiti and the Dominican share an island, the cultures are totally different though and whatever machete stuff is being practiced in Haiti is not what the Dominicans are doing when they fight on the streets with swords. Two different styles of fighting (might have some similarities but from what I can dig up they are very different). Just compare the videos it looks different.
Actually I didn't say it was the same, I put it up for comment not a put down. I'm aware that they share an island, who isn't.
The people in the videos are just fighting, nothing more nothing less, it's fighting. Duelling? Not so much so, just fights, you can't elevate them to mean something they aren't.
Machetes to many people mean this along with many other atrocities, http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...ots-leave-500-dead-after-machete-attacks.html
FriedRice
Master Black Belt
Looks like a gentleman's fight with no intentions of lethal strikes. Otherwise white shirt would be drenched in his own blood at 0:16 second mark. He was clearly getting smacked with the flat part of the blade repeatedly and. Other guy had a clear shot for a thrusting stab right after, but didn't do it. Cameras, witnesses...probably the prison system there is pretty rough for murderers.
And sugar cane plantations are big there, so I wouldn't want to go up against these guys, considering how proficient they should be, swinging machetes all day/365 for a living.
You are a smart one, why don't you go over there and see if they "smack you with the flat part of the blade repeatedly." They don't give a f*ck about the police as there aren't any to help you. If they want to kill you they will. You idiots make me laugh...why don't you buy a plane ticket to the Dominican Republic. Once you arrive there take a taxi to the nearest ghetto in Santo Domingo. Tell them you are a sword/knife fighter and see what happens to you. You will be robbed and left for dead after they slice you into ribbons. There will be no ambulance called to help you. No police will come to rescue you. They will take everything you have and kill you...and if you want to fight them with a sword/machete I am sure they would be more than happy to accommodate you.
Hyoho
2nd Black Belt
Oh dear, you are beginning to sound like an abusive troll. As you seem so keen in posting this stuff I had assumed you came from Dominica anyway. What exactly do you do? Not HNIR that's for sure as you seem to think Musashi did Iaijutsu. You seem to think 'we' are idiots' yet still you don't back anything up except with videos. It's ghetto fighting. There is probably far more of this in Africa than in Dominica
FriedRice
Master Black Belt
Why are you crying? He clearly struck the other guy multiple times with the flat part of the machete. Where's the blood?
Are you butthurt over something? No one's disputing that it's a dangerous place. But not everyone's out to kill every time, duh?
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Tez, thanks for this interesting clip. Unlike the OP I see plenty in common between the machete and stick fighting arts of the Philipines, the Caribbean and parts of Latin America. The blending of Spanish sword techniques, native arts, and practical experience with agricultural tools used for defense and to settle fierce disputes ...all combined with a strong desire to come out alive will perforce result in certain commonalities.
On the other hand I really don't get the OP's insistence that such fighting only occurs in the D.R. Does he mean to tell us that people in the ghettos of Manila, or the gangs of El Salvador, or a million other rough places, don't fight "for reals" with knives and machetes?
