So Martial Arts isn't Boy Scouts

[Dirty Dog]

They apply some of the same principals. Both emphasize being trustworthy, friendly, courteous, kind, brave, and clean. And in both you shouldn't be afraid to talk to your superior if you don't understand something, you should be able to talk to your sensei in the martial arts and you should be able to talk to your scoutmaster in boyscouts.

All traits that are equally important to pole dancers.

 

[PhotonGuy]

I haven't been in any martial art that emphasises being friendly, trustworthy, courteous etc etc. Martial arts is mostly for adults ( yes I know children do them) to teach them to fight/defend themselves not to teach them to be well rounded human people.
I'm not sure why you want to link the two, why it matters.

I don't know where you're from but over here, children make up the vast majority of people who take up martial arts. In most cases you get a child whose maybe 8, 9, 10 who wants to try it out so they do it for a year, get their green belt, hang it up on the wall, show it to their friends, and then move on to other stuff. Children by far make up most of the business. If you've ever been to a MA tournament over here you will see they are mobbed with children who are 12 and younger. Teens and adults make up a smaller portion of tournament participants.

As to why Im linking the two and why it matters is because of this, asking about rank, and there I go about rank again, there is nothing wrong with asking your scoutmaster about rank in boyscouts. Although the handbook spells it out about what you need to do for each rank there are still some things which might be unclear to the scout and there is nothing wrong with asking the scoutmaster about it. Asking your sensei about rank in the martial arts, on the other hand, is often seen as disrespectful and can sometimes even get a student a six month suspension in rank advancement as this other member of the boards posted on how he does it at his place. Anyway in both MA and BS, I am talking about earning rank, not buying it or having it handed out. Anyway, what Im getting at is whats the difference in asking about such stuff in scouts vs martial arts aside from, "martial arts isn't boyscouts."

 

[Tez3]

I don't know where you're from but over here, children make up the vast majority of people who take up martial arts. In most cases you get a child whose maybe 8, 9, 10 who wants to try it out so they do it for a year, get their green belt, hang it up on the wall, show it to their friends, and then move on to other stuff. Children by far make up most of the business. If you've ever been to a MA tournament over here you will see they are mobbed with children who are 12 and younger. Teens and adults make up a smaller portion of tournament participants.

As to why Im linking the two and why it matters is because of this, asking about rank, and there I go about rank again, there is nothing wrong with asking your scoutmaster about rank in boyscouts. Although the handbook spells it out about what you need to do for each rank there are still some things which might be unclear to the scout and there is nothing wrong with asking the scoutmaster about it. Asking your sensei about rank in the martial arts, on the other hand, is often seen as disrespectful and can sometimes even get a student a six month suspension in rank advancement as this other member of the boards posted on how he does it at his place. Anyway in both MA and BS, I am talking about earning rank, not buying it or having it handed out. Anyway, what Im getting at is whats the difference in asking about such stuff in scouts vs martial arts aside from, "martial arts isn't boyscouts."

It says on the top right hand corner where I'm from. And again I will remind you that you are talking about Scouting in your country, we don't have 'scout masters' the word being redundant here as being far too authoritative, we have Scouters/Scout leaders. We don't have rank in Scouting and 'rank' in martial arts isn't rank in the sense of the military etc. I think you are reaching for similarities that aren't there. In Scouting we have the Queen's Scout which isn't a rank it's an award, you have to work for it but it gives you no rank.

 

[Transk53]

We do it all the time and if you ever studied history you will know what I mean. An example will be how, to this day, people are still debating whether or not Japan should've been nuked in WWII. The fact of the matter is, had Japan not been nuked than the argument would've been that Japan should've been nuked and what the outcome would've been, but what it all comes down to is that Japan was nuked and arguing about it now would be pointless since its been done and what's done is done and arguing about it now won't change the past. So, people are flogging a dead horse in that regard.

Man what is up with you. Yeah Japan got nuked, but it was to spare American lives. In 1945, it would have been a blood bath on both sides. It is not debatable to me. Anyway who is debating it and where. Would like to see some linkage.

 

[PhotonGuy]

It says on the top right hand corner where I'm from. And again I will remind you that you are talking about Scouting in your country, we don't have 'scout masters' the word being redundant here as being far too authoritative, we have Scouters/Scout leaders. We don't have rank in Scouting and 'rank' in martial arts isn't rank in the sense of the military etc. I think you are reaching for similarities that aren't there. In Scouting we have the Queen's Scout which isn't a rank it's an award, you have to work for it but it gives you no rank.

I see you're from England. So things are obviously different there. Here in NJ as I said most of the people who take up martial arts are children and they usually only do it for awhile, maybe for a year or so. And our BSA system is obviously different than your scouting. We do have leaders in our troops but there is also the scoutmaster who oversees the whole troop.

 

[PhotonGuy]

Man what is up with you. Yeah Japan got nuked, but it was to spare American lives. In 1945, it would have been a blood bath on both sides. It is not debatable to me. Anyway who is debating it and where. Would like to see some linkage.

In some of my college classes we would study WWII and we would read articles written by people who said Japan shouldnt've been nuked. I don't have any links right now but I will try to find some. One of the arguments against it is that it was a test to see the effects of a uranium bomb vs a plutonium bomb. The first bomb was a uranium bomb, the second bomb was a plutonium bomb.

 

[PhotonGuy]

Here is a link I found. It is not the same articles I read in college but it has arguments both in favor and against the nuking of Japan.

Debate:Was the United States Justified in Nuking Japan? - RationalWiki

 

[Cirdan]

A dolphin and a whale were responsible for dropping the nukes of course.

 

[Transk53]

Here is a link I found. It is not the same articles I read in college but it has arguments both in favor and against the nuking of Japan.

Debate:Was the United States Justified in Nuking Japan? - RationalWiki

I don't need to see some half arsed wiki page. American lives were saved. I would like you to see reality sometime fella.

 

[Dirty Dog]

In some of my college classes we would study WWII and we would read articles written by people who said Japan shouldnt've been nuked. I don't have any links right now but I will try to find some. One of the arguments against it is that it was a test to see the effects of a uranium bomb vs a plutonium bomb. The first bomb was a uranium bomb, the second bomb was a plutonium bomb.

Here is a link I found. It is not the same articles I read in college but it has arguments both in favor and against the nuking of Japan.

Debate:Was the United States Justified in Nuking Japan? - RationalWiki

I don't need to see some half arsed wiki page. American lives were saved. I would like you to see reality sometime fella.

There is plenty to debate on the issue of nuclear weapons. But this is not the correct place for it. It's the wrong thread. In the wrong forum.

 

[Transk53]

There is plenty to debate on the issue of nuclear weapons. But this is not the correct place for it. It's the wrong thread. In the wrong forum.

I hear ya, sorry man. Just a bit passionate about certain things!

 

[PhotonGuy]

The thread has gone off on a completely different tangent. I only used the example of nuclear bombs on WWII of how people beat dead horses when they still to this day argue against it. That was when this thread got into the idea of beating dead horses, when the thread started out as a comparison between boyscouts and martial arts.

 

[Transk53]

The thread has gone off on a completely different tangent. I only used the example of nuclear bombs on WWII of how people beat dead horses when they still to this day argue against it. That was when this thread got into the idea of beating dead horses, when the thread started out as a comparison between boyscouts and martial arts.

Yeah sure.

 

[Tez3]

The thread has gone off on a completely different tangent. I only used the example of nuclear bombs on WWII of how people beat dead horses when they still to this day argue against it. That was when this thread got into the idea of beating dead horses, when the thread started out as a comparison between boyscouts and martial arts.

You still haven't grasped the idea of flogging a dead horse, it isn't the Japan/nuclear debate, as you can see there's still strong feelings and arguments in that. Flogging a dead horse is where you are comparing oranges with apples and saying they are the same when they really, really not. people would 'flog' a horse to make it go faster and/or keep going, there's still mileage in the horse. Flogging a dead horse is obviously pointless because the bloody horse is dead and not going anywhere.

 

[PhotonGuy]

Well than enough about trying to compare martial arts and boyscouts. I was actually getting at something else when I started this thread.

 

[Carol]

Well than enough about trying to compare martial arts and boyscouts. I was actually getting at something else when I started this thread.

So you started a thread about comparing martial arts to the Boy Scouts of America because you wanted to talk about something other than comparing martial arts to the Boy Scouts of America?

How does that work, exactly?

 

[PhotonGuy]

This is the point I wanted to make. I was a Boy Scout and in Boy Scouts there is nothing wrong with a scout asking the scoutmaster stuff about what they need to do to get to the next level. There is nothing wrong with a Life scout asking the scoutmaster what they need to do to get to Eagle. On the other hand, some people, I would say lots of people on this board say its disrespectful for martial arts students to ask their senseis stuff about belts. I don't see what the problem would be with a brown belt student asking their sensei what they need to do to get a black belt. Take note I am talking about a brown belt student here, not a white belt or a green belt but a brown belt. If a student wants to get an A in a class there is nothing wrong with the student talking to their teacher about it and if a Life scout wants to be an Eagle there is nothing wrong with them talking to their scoutmaster about it. It doesn't mean the student or scout disrespects their teacher or scoutmaster, they just want to do well and reach a certain goal and there shouldn't be anything wrong with them asking about it. However, people say its disrespectful for a brown belt student in the martial arts to ask their sensei what they need to do to get a black belt, I don't see why that is. If you've got a certain goal you need to know what you have to do to reach that goal, makes sense doesn't it?

 

[Blindside]

This is the point I wanted to make. I was a Boy Scout and in Boy Scouts there is nothing wrong with a scout asking the scoutmaster stuff about what they need to do to get to the next level. There is nothing wrong with a Life scout asking the scoutmaster what they need to do to get to Eagle. On the other hand, some people, I would say lots of people on this board say its disrespectful for martial arts students to ask their senseis stuff about belts. I don't see what the problem would be with a brown belt student asking their sensei what they need to do to get a black belt. Take note I am talking about a brown belt student here, not a white belt or a green belt but a brown belt. If a student wants to get an A in a class there is nothing wrong with the student talking to their teacher about it and if a Life scout wants to be an Eagle there is nothing wrong with them talking to their scoutmaster about it. It doesn't mean the student or scout disrespects their teacher or scoutmaster, they just want to do well and reach a certain goal and there shouldn't be anything wrong with them asking about it. However, people say its disrespectful for a brown belt student in the martial arts to ask their sensei what they need to do to get a black belt, I don't see why that is. If you've got a certain goal you need to know what you have to do to reach that goal, makes sense doesn't it?

Don't you already have two threads about needing to have better communication with your martial arts instructor? You really need to let this subject go, you are seriously fixated on it. Relax, breathe, use those martial arts skills you have learned to to clear your mind and move on.

 

[Dirty Dog]

Don't you already have two threads about needing to have better communication with your martial arts instructor? You really need to let this subject go, you are seriously fixated on it. Relax, breathe, use those martial arts skills you have learned to to clear your mind and move on.

I think it's more like 8...

 

[Tez3]

This is the point I wanted to make. I was a Boy Scout and in Boy Scouts there is nothing wrong with a scout asking the scoutmaster stuff about what they need to do to get to the next level. There is nothing wrong with a Life scout asking the scoutmaster what they need to do to get to Eagle. On the other hand, some people, I would say lots of people on this board say its disrespectful for martial arts students to ask their senseis stuff about belts. I don't see what the problem would be with a brown belt student asking their sensei what they need to do to get a black belt. Take note I am talking about a brown belt student here, not a white belt or a green belt but a brown belt. If a student wants to get an A in a class there is nothing wrong with the student talking to their teacher about it and if a Life scout wants to be an Eagle there is nothing wrong with them talking to their scoutmaster about it. It doesn't mean the student or scout disrespects their teacher or scoutmaster, they just want to do well and reach a certain goal and there shouldn't be anything wrong with them asking about it. However, people say its disrespectful for a brown belt student in the martial arts to ask their sensei what they need to do to get a black belt, I don't see why that is. If you've got a certain goal you need to know what you have to do to reach that goal, makes sense doesn't it?

So you are saying that Scouts and martial arts aren't the same at all.

When I said that you should remember that you are talking about Scouting in your country you should also remember you are talking about the martial arts you do. What people say it's disrespectful to ask about black belt, I don't and I welcome questions, most instructors I know do. If you have a problem with your instructor/sensei it doesn't mean all martial arts is like that.