So, I am 39, single (Divorced), no kids, and over weight, ....

[Carol]

Men are from Mars.
Women are from Venus.

That's all good for the men that really are from Mars and the women that really are from Venus. The problem for me is...I have pretty strong roots in....Vulcan.

The more of this type of psychoanalysis floats about, the more I feel like I get squeezed out simply for being who I am.

I agree, but what you may not take into account is the emotional ups and downs us ladies tend to have. I consider myself an open honest person, but it is sometimes hard to verbalise exactly what it is we want, because sometimes we just may not be sure.

I'm a systems engineer, 12 years experience, heavily ensconced in the Voice over IP space. Verbalizing what I am thinking or feeling, in a way that is appropriate and helpful, is part of my job.

Putting words to what I want, putting words to my ideas....politely, respectfully, hopefully with a decent sense of timing...that's a trait that carries over in to my personal life. I can't help it, it's who I am.

But, that may not be what women from Venus are like.

I remember telling my boyfriend that one thing you will not get from an emotional woman is a logical conversation, because emotions and logical don’t always go hand in hand!

Ah, but for me, everything and logic always goes hand in hand. I dislike the word "emotional" because it implies that one is driven by one's emotions. Emotive, yes. Passionate, most certainly. I am absolutely not a stone. I have emotions...I feel them...but everything is against a backplane of logic. I can tell someone how I am feeling. I can tell someone why I feel that way.

Sometimes need a bit of direction. Logical thought often leads to a logical response...but such a response isn't always the right response. If someone doesn't like my train of thought, I'd rather have them tell me "Please, I just need to vent now", rather than stewing over the fact that I shared an idea with them.

Dang Vulcan blood....

Therefore it makes life so much easier if you communicate before these times come up. Ladys need to explain that when they are feeling emotional they may lash out, but to try not to take it personally because they dont really mean to hurt you. Also if a man needs some time out, just say so to his partner, say he will be back or else she will worry that she did something wrong and he is angry at her.

That definitely help, but it takes a lot of trust to break through patterns of preconception. If I were to walk up to a man that I barely know and say "HI, I'm a woman, but I'm more logical than emotional," what would his response be? "Yeah, right..." coupled with a sarcastic laugh?

If I were to walk up to one of my new colleagues and say "Hi, I'm a woman, but I'm more logical than emotional," their reaction would likely be..."Well, DUH!"

Communication with patience and a loving, forgiving heart is what’s required

It takes more. Communication with a loving, forgiving heart...and an open, accepting mind. For once the mind is open enough to learn about and accept a man (or woman)...not with thoughts of changing him, not with societal presuppositions, not with measuring him up to what the book says he is like...but for who he truly is as an individual...it is then that the heart is truly released...set free to forgive, to be patient, and most importantly, to love.

 

[Sarah]

I guess you wouldn’t fit into the stereotypical 'norm' and that’s just fine, there is also nothing wrong with being emtionional, I am driven by my emotions and feeling, it’s not a weakness, it makes me and extremely loving caring person.

What I was saying earlier about communication was in relation to an intimate relationship, the way we relate and communicate with workmates and people we have just met is quite different to the way we interact with our partners.

 

[Tarot]

You see Sarah you hit the nail on the head. If you tell your significant other, you just need to vent then it is all good. Then they other will not solve problems or issues, or what have you.

This is exactly what I do with my husband. If I just need to vent and blow off steam, that's exactly what I say I'm doing. If I'm looking for advice then I'll ask him what he thinks. And vice versa. Just because he's male doesn't mean he doesn't need to vent and blow off steam. And just because I'm female, doesn't mean I can't offer solutions or advice.

I'm with Lady_kaur, I don't fit any stereotype for females. And thank goodness for that!

 

[Kreth]

I think you'll find that quite a few of the regulars here don't fit into any stereotypical "norms."

 

[Carol]

Ayyyeee...I think I should have gone to bed early last night.

*hugs to Sarah*

I deeply apologize for that. In no way did I ever intend to imply any sort of superior implications.

If I can manage to describe this without sounding hurtful, or rude...there are many folks that are outside of a "stereotypical norm".

Outside the stereotypical norm may mean being a man that is in his late 30's, without the wife or 2.6 kids and 1.2 pets.

Or it may be a woman that's...a woman, just not from Venus.

Where the stumbling blocks occur is when a person doesn't meet another person's expectations. If the expectations are set from society, they are much harder to work around, and often met with resistance, sometimes hurtful resistance.

Had this thread not been about being outside the norm...this is probably not a subject that I would have brought up.

Again, absolultely no disrespect intended. Please fogive me for the way I sounded. :asian:

 

[Sarah]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/humanbody/sex/add_user.shtml

"Some researchers say that men can have 'women's brains' and that women can think more like men."


One of my closest friend has more of a male brain, ie thinks more like a man etc, its true to a point, she is very competitive and not effected to much by emotion.. Its actually one of the reasons I like her so much, she is to the point, pulls no punches and doesn’t confuse facts with emotion.

I seem to fit somewhere in the middle, I still consider myself quite girly, but compared to my 'VERY feminine' girlfriends im some what of a hard ***.. lol

Will be interesting to see what kind of results others here get

 

[Sarah]

lol, Dont worry I took it as it was

And you can feel asured that it todays world the "norm" is not really the norm anymore!

 

[Cryozombie]

I'm outside the norm in many ways.

 

[Rich Parsons]

What we have identified so far:

1) Religion can lead people to make assumptions
1a) It is not alright in the USA for people to force others to follow their religion or to make it so that must feel like the must follow their religion.
1b) This is not the most likely cause, and can be a slight contributor to other causes as well.

2) Age: Generation wise
2a) It has been noted that people from an older generation are more likely to follow the getting married and having kids as the norm, and presume or assume and make comments even not ill willed about getting married and having kids.
2b) Those in the middle right now have pointed out cases where people were happy living together when they got married after years (* 5 to 10+ *), they were unhappy. This lead to being unhappy and depressed or getting a divorce.
2c) Those that are younger, are mixed depending upon their experiences. Yet many do not assume to get married, as a recent study stated that over 50% of all women born in Japan since 1972 have not gotten married and not had a child. (* Television news Blurb on Canadian TV *)

3) Men are from Mars (* or where ever *) and Women are from Venus (* or where ever *)
3a) This puts into place a generic map for people to try to understnad others.
3b) What really came out of this was that communication to your partner is the best medicine for this issue.


I would like to discuss Starter Marriages next. I recently read about these as well a few months ago. This is where on or both of a couple in a relationship in their early 20's agrees to marriage knowing they will not be married to this person later in life. They do this to get out of their parents house and to live on their own with someone else. As they cannot afford to live by themselves.

1) Do you think these starter marriages are a sign of our culture expecting people to be married?

2) Or do you think these are just calculating young people who are willing to do something to get somewhere?

The Caveat or side note to number 2 directly above is why could they not jsut live together? This leads back to number one as in pressure from society?

Thoughts?

 

[Sarah]

1) Do you think these starter marriages are a sign of our culture expecting people to be married?

2) Or do you think these are just calculating young people who are willing to do something to get somewhere?

The Caveat or side note to number 2 directly above is why could they not jsut live together? This leads back to number one as in pressure from society?

Thoughts?

I have not heard starter marriages referred to in that way before, I thought it was a reference to the fact most married people now days are on the second or third marriage, Meaning that younger people are not taking marriage as seriously as the older generation in this 'have an argument get a divorce culture'.

I have even heard people say 'oh well if it doesn’t work out you can always get a divorce', as it seems so easy (not so much here where the process takes two whole years).

As for your question above, again I have never heard of this, is it possible its for tax benefits??

 

[Carol]

I read about "starter marriages" and it kind of disturbed me. If I understood it correctly, it was young folks getting married, even though they have no plans to stay married, or something like that? And getting divorced after a year or two?

I honestly don't know the answer to that one.

 

[Rich Parsons]

I have not heard starter marriages referred to in that way before, I thought it was a reference to the fact most married people now days are on the second or third marriage, Meaning that younger people are not taking marriage as seriously as the older generation in this 'have an argument get a divorce culture'.

I have even heard people say 'oh well if it doesn’t work out you can always get a divorce', as it seems so easy (not so much here where the process takes two whole years).

As for your question above, again I have never heard of this, is it possible its for tax benefits??

Sarah,

It was noted that it was mostly on the east and west coasts where cost of living we high and in metro areas as well.

 

[Rich Parsons]

I read about "starter marriages" and it kind of disturbed me. If I understood it correctly, it was young folks getting married, even though they have no plans to stay married, or something like that? And getting divorced after a year or two?

I honestly don't know the answer to that one.

Well sometimes it was only one who did not want to stay married, and knew it going in.

Most of the time they would get married in the mid 20's after college of post grad work and then get divorced by 30 for they expected to meet someone by then who would better fit their carear and life style goals.

 

[Carol]

that is just...using another person in the worst way! To have someone committed that one can jettison if one meets someone else?

I don't think that is societal expectation...to me that just seems like selfishness. very sad

 

[Rich Parsons]

that is just...using another person in the worst way! To have someone committed that one can jettison if one meets someone else?

I don't think that is societal expectation...to me that just seems like selfishness. very sad

Yet sometimes as you mentioned both would agree to this.

So why not just live together. Still the same income and the same bills, and the slight tax benefit is out weighed if the divorce gets harry.

Why do these people think the NEED to get married in the first place? They know they are not right or ready, yet they do?


(* So I do not forget - this leads to another possible issue of - Escape. One or both are looking to escape their current family life. *)

 

[Tarot]

The idea of a starter marriage disturbs me as well. However if both people are going into this arrangement knowing full well what all the terms are then who's to say it isn't right for them? It becomes dishonest and using someone, only if one of the parties isn't aware that the marriage is short term. If both people are aware then I guess they have every right to live how they want to.

This doesn't mean I agree with it. I'm with Rich, and people should just live together instead of taking that legal step of getting married. Otherwise it seems like they don't take the concept of a marriage very seriously if they know they are going to trash it in a few years.