Snobs

[donald]

Am I to understand that some idiot is beating on an elderly woman in class, and this is being tolerated? At the VERY least this twerp oughta be shown the door. Is the head instructor even aware of the situation? If not, why not? The students have an obligation to their fellow student. To step in, even if the victim says not to. The situation should not be permitted to continue...

Salute :soapbox:

 

[Goldendragon7]

We are all so out spoken on this topic......... hee hee....... To become violent on this person for what he has done thus far is uncalled for ........

I Personally think there 3 main players and a host of others that should be concerned.

Here is how I would want to have my studio handle this.

1st....... Some one better tell me when they see a salutation that is not normal..... the HEAD INSTRUCTOR should be told of what's happening and NOW. This is ALL the students jobs (Host of others)

2nd ....... It's the instructors place to teach the students that not everyone here is for the same reason. Some individuals are just there to fight... some are ...... etc etc...... AS SUCH it is the instructors duty to get across HOW MUCH PRESSURE to apply to everyone during class and exercises....... If this is not stressed the problem here is that ..... Grandma will leave and go to another form of exercise and leave this YOUNG WARRIOR CLUB unto itself... IF you have a "family studio" then all need to treat it that way and understand clearly how to treat all of its members!!

This I would want to be brought up to me as the studio owner so that I could take care of the Instructor and teach him/her what I want at the studio better ....... Be able to talk to Grandma and apologize and let her know we want her and that it was a small misunderstanding from an enthusiastic Instructor, and also use it as a teaching example during Instructors class so we all could get better at public relations and understand how treat everyone that enters the studio better and that we all have different goals.

: :asian:
:soapbox

 

[tonbo]

Good point, GoldenDragon.

I guess that's why you are *running* a school, while some of us are just *attending* one.....

Well, okay....that, and other reasons, too......

Peace--

 

[tunetigress]

Well, speaking as a 'mature' woman who has primarily trained with higher-ranked guys half her age and at least twice as strong, I feel compelled to chime in here. I've been paired up with enormous bruisers, as well as scrawny wimps, and any of them could have hurt me at any time had they felt like it. Lucky for me they didn't. What I got was respect, a few laffs (at their expense of course) and a darn good work out. I expected the tone and level of activity to be controlled by the instructor and placed my trust in his judgement. If, at any time, I had felt that my training partners lacked control to the point that I needed to repeatedly ask them to tone it down, I would have expected the instructor to notice and step in.

People come to the Martial Arts with different, yet worthy goals in mind for the most part. When someone feels compelled to display their perceived power in ways that disrespect others, they can disrupt the training goals of the others in the class. Out of respect for myself, I would likely refuse to train with such an individual, if he was permitted to continue to behave in this manner. Us old ladies , tough as we are, take a lot longer to heal and injuries that take us out of training for months are, in my opinion, best avoided. I just don't have enough time left to let some idiot try to prove himself to others at my expense.

An instructor who allows one person's ego to detract from the training of the others in the class, may find eventually find themselves teaching a class of one! :asian:

 

[GouRonin]

Originally posted by Scott Bonner
As one of the poeple who actually -- *gasp* -- suggested that he start with a non-violent solution, I want to say that you are making a huge assumption.

Sounds like the guy is beating on elderly students when the instructors are not looking. Sounds to me like they all know he's doing it but can't seem to catch him. Sounds to me like he has been spoken to. Sounds like he keeps doing it. Maybe my hearing sucks.

Originally posted by Scott Bonner
I have never lacked in willingness to take action when appropriate, and I'd be the last person to let someone be victimized when I can stop it. Stepping in is something I'm good at. Thou speakest out thine ****.

I wasn't talking about you and what you would do. You feeling guilty about something there porkchop?

Originally posted by Scott Bonner
I've risked my *** to save strangers before; discipline includes acting violently when appropriate as well as acting non-violently when appropriate. (I learned that without martial arts, oddly enough.) That violence is _sometimes_, even _rarely_ appropriate doesn't make violence a good first choice every time someone pisses you off. That's just selfishness, in this case disguised as good works.

He's been asked not to. By other students, the instructors, the person he's picking on. He continues to do it despite this request and it seems like when they are not catching him. They tried to be nice. I'm all for nice being the first line of defence. I never said it was my first choice. Where are you getting this from? Hell, even in my anology I pointed out that the first choice should be talking to someone to come to terms.

Originally posted by Scott Bonner
Selfishness and violence are more closely related than selfishness and non-violence. It's what sociopathology is all about.

Are you calling me a sociopath?

Originally posted by Scott Bonner
If the guy were actually beating up the old lady, of course I would intervene. Everyone in the whole dam* school should intervene. But that's not exactly what was described, is it? The bad guy was pushing limits too far, not beating people down, or at least that's how I read it.

Ok, maybe I followed this string wrong. I read it as they did ask this guy to stop. He continues to do so in fact when no one is looking as the instructor of the school stated they were aware of it. He continues to beat on grandma despite the fact he has been asked not to by her and the instructors and other students. This behavior is constant. How long should they keep saying he's pushing the limits? Until grandma gets hurt? Oh, then it's gone to far? I think we're reading this differently. At no point did I say go over and beat him senseless right off the bat. I'm saying it appears to me that all other options have been tried.

Originally posted by Scott Bonner
Playing cowboy is weakness, because being the tough guy is easier than actually making tough choices. It's harder to step back and find the best solution than to come in swinging.

I agree. Tough choices have to be made. I think it's best to sit and see what your choices are and then take the best one that solves the problem and makes sure everyone comes out as ahead as they can. That includes grandma, (Damn I have to meet this lady now, I feel like I know her. Ha ha ha) and the guy who is the problem. Why beat on him if you can solve the problem amicably? I just don't think that is the case here.

And...playing a good cowboy is harder than you think. I never said wail on the guy. I said "be there." Be in his way when he wants to lump on grandma or goes looking for her as a partner. He bangs, you bang back. He relaxes and acts like an adult you return the favour. I said "SMILE" as you work with him. Be nice. But be there. Pretend you're a wall with a painted on smile in his way if you want.

Not sure why you're in a huff over this but I think it's because we both read this situation differently. if we were in the same studio we'd both be sitting down right now I bet and deciding how to handle this guy and the best course of action to take. No doubt of the two of us you'd be the one to go talk to him first. Then if that didn't work, me, I'm a bit more blunt. Then after we exhausted that we'd be fighting each other to go stand in front of this guy.

 

[GouRonin]

Originally posted by Goldendragon7
Here is how I would want to have my studio handle this.

This wouldn't BE happening at your school.

 

[Sigung86]

And some folks ratchet their jaws a little too much methinks.

I suspect that, on occasion, if a little more rod had been not spared, in lieu of the child, this kind of stuff might not be occurring.

Dan

 

[Goldendragon7]

Originally posted by GouRonin
This wouldn't BE happening at your school.

LOL ya know....... You are right!:rofl:

:asian:

 

[Kirk]

Quite a number of replies here ... too many to quote so let me
clarify.

This guy is a blue belt. I'm orange. He's about 5'
even. "Grandma" isn't a hunch backed frail woman, she can dish
it out. She'd be complimented by me calling her a "good ol'
broad". He's not really beating anyone. What he's doing is taking
the exercises we're doing, too far EVERY time. Which is the cause
for my anger. All of us beginners have accidentally hurt each
other. We apologize, accept the apology, and move on. Except
for him. One orange belt wailed on him, and he got MAD. He
acted like he could just do SO much to him, because he has 32
more techniques under his belt. He hurt my elbow big time, and
after I screamed "OW!" he said nothing, and then proceeded to
do it again. He then did the same thing to "Grandma". I knew
my instructor(s) were aware of this, I just didn't know to what
extent.

I brought up his actions in the locker room last night, and one
guy said his wife wailed on him and he hasn't treated her that
way since. That tells me how to handle it. I'm going to give as
good as I get. I was afraid of being labeled a bully, since I
outweigh the guy by such an extreme margin, but the locker room
discussion revealed that "grandma" and I weren't the only ones
he's doing this B.S. to.

The school I go to is one of 3 EPAK schools in the city. In the
short time I've studied, I know it's the best one in the city. I'm
lucky to be in the school I'm in, and have the instructor's that I
have. I'm not gonna let one jerk ruin that for me.

 

[Goldendragon7]

 

[tonbo]

Sounds like you have a resolution pretty firmly in mind.

Good luck to ya, and I hope that resolves the issue. If the guy has half a brain, maybe he'll pick up on the clues.......

Peace--

 

[Scott Bonner]

Having trouble with the multiple quotes thing, so bear with me. Quoted text is from Gou Ronin.

Gou,

"I wasn't talking about you and what you would do. You feeling guilty about something there porkchop?"

LOL

"Are you calling me a sociopath?"

Of course not. I'd have to know you better first. I was referring to the idea that, in general, violence is a selfish act.

Originally posted by GouRonin


Not sure why you're in a huff over this but I think it's because we both read this situation differently. if we were in the same studio we'd both be sitting down right now I bet and deciding how to handle this guy and the best course of action to take. No doubt of the two of us you'd be the one to go talk to him first. Then if that didn't work, me, I'm a bit more blunt. Then after we exhausted that we'd be fighting each other to go stand in front of this guy.

I think you are exactly right, both in why we have been disagreeing, and in the likely outcome if we were actually in the class together. I'm pretty blunt, though, so you may be surprised at how fast I'll move through the "de-escalating interventions" (a phrase from my years as a psych tech in mental hospitals with children).

Email sucks. :shrug:

 

[Scott Bonner]

Kirk,

Keep us posted on how it turns out. I'd suggest keeping your instructor "in the loop" so your interventions don't end up biting you in the ****.

 

[Scott Bonner]

Tonbo,

Your points (under the message entitled Playing "Cowboy") are well taken. In general, I agree, especially about there being an understanding before entering the dojo about what is expected of you.

 

[tonbo]

Hey, back atcha!!

You made some good points yourself, about making sure that the fist ain't the first response when one gets annoyed. I'm all with ya on that one.

I think a LOT of good points were made on the whole topic. Especially that bit about smiling while working with the guy. The psychology works wonders.....

Peace--

 

[Goldendragon7]

agree / disagree....... point / counter point discussions that we should have and at the end.... resolve or not .... friendly ending of the string....and each entitled to his own opinions etc. keeping misunderstandings and attitudes in check. Your great attitudes will seperate a great forum from a poor one.

Great Work Guys......!!!

:asian:

 

[Rich Parsons]

Originally posted by Goldendragon7

agree / disagree....... point / counter point discussions that we should have and at the end.... resolve or not .... friendly ending of the string....and each entitled to his own opinions etc. keeping misunderstandings and attitudes in check. Your great attitudes will seperate a great forum from a poor one.

Great Work Guys......!!!

:asian:

And as a non Kempp practitioner it makes it
very easy for me and others to follow and to
learn along the way.

Thank you

Rich
:asian:

 

[cdhall]

Originally posted by C.E.Jackson

Snob = Insecure

This will pass in time with some proper guidence from his/her instructor. (usually)

It is the Instructor's responsibility to deal with these individuals as the Instructor sees fit using his/her's years of experience to resolve the problem.

I've run into all these types as well. Sadly some have gone on to "very high" rank and are still "snobs".

Some will learn and develope charactor and some will not.:shrug:

Unfortunately, although there are many good suggestions, this is the case and I have experienced these situations myself. When they are lower rank you can usually "suggest" to them that they try... whatever, when they are higher rank and won't ask for clarification like you said, I ask the Head Instructor anyway. Either right there or later depending on the circumstances. You can phrase it many ways "Well, I'm sure he said... or I thought for sure... or I like your idea better but I'm still confuse ..." and just ask. The more that gets dealt with in the open, the better. In my opinion.

But your Head Instructor has the final word. Be sure to check with them. :asian:

 

[Goldendragon7]

Good Advice.......
:asian: