Slightly concerned about my school.

[chungdokwan123]

At two months in? Yeah. He's merely a consumer. Perhaps after a year or so, maybe two years, he might be an aspiring martial artist...

I would view a term of two years of training as no longer a mere aspiration.

The relationship between a martial arts student and instructor in the USA has much in common with a gym membership.

Refer to the next statement.

In the same way, your instructor, as beneficent as he might be, is still running a business, and some part of your relationship to him is commercial.

As I admitted, my view is perhaps somewhat skewed.....we have a very close student/instructor relationship in a very small town. I have no problem in admitting that, on this particular point, I may well have blinders on.

I think that this is really, really funny when read immediately before reading this next bit from you:
Personally, I think that you're mistaken, but I respect your opinion and would support your decision to train in a style that suits you. But salient to this discussion, according to your own standards, you aren't competent to form your own opinion. Further, according to your own advice, you should go back and pay the instructor for lessons until you're good enough to know that the style or school is not for you.

You misunderstand.....I had no interest in the other styles mentioned. I was invited to sample some of the training. Had I expressed a desire to learn them, then by my own admission I would be now in danger of being labeled a hypocrite.

This is your own advice, and to be clear, I would give you the same advice I gave the OP. I would advise you to do exactly as you've done: try it and see what you think of the style and of the school. If it doesn't suit you, try something else until you find a combination that fits.

Friend, this isn't about me. I have found what makes me happy.

Just as an aside, BJJ is a true life sport, overall, less grueling on the body than just about any other MA. But I don't expect to convince you of that. You've formed an opinion and I respect that even if I disagree.

Once again you misunderstand. My whole goal of participating in forums such as this is to learn from others......not to attempt to win arguments. As an example, can you talk to me about how BJJ is less grueling on the body? What in your opinion makes it less so? I'm truly interested in what you have to say on the matter.

This is surely true, but you're completely missing the point. Nowhere have I suggested the OP abandon TKD. I'm suggesting that the school might not be a good fit for him.

I didn't mean to imply that you suggested that he abandon TKD. On the contrary.....my feeling is simply that at his level, with the lack of confidence he himself expressed, he may be jumping the gun, but then I totally agree that his chosen school may well indeed be total crap. I just think that perhaps he needs a little more time to make that determination, unless of course he can find a way to sample the training of another school while continuing where he is......as a comparison.

You're saying that he can't form an opinion about the business unless he's an expert in TKD. I disagree.

I said nothing of the kind. If I left you with that impression, I apologize. Perhaps I didn't make myself clear. An expert? No. Yet as a white belt with little confidence, I'd be hard pressed to accept his opinion without knowing more about his training.

Just as I don't need to be an expert restauranteur in order to know bad service when I see it, the OP can form a competent personal opinion on his TKD school without being a green belt (or whatever).

As I see it, some of the behavior he mentioned does seem a bit quirky, but then other instructors have offered up possible explanations for said.

Abrasive??? In THIS specific sub-forum, I'm the one being abrasive?

"Patronizing garbage". Yeah......that was a little abrasive.

Anyway. What is patronizing is your entire line of reasoning. This idea that the OP doesn't have patience or intelligence or experience enough to understand. It's too big for him to grasp. You are shifting responsibility from the school owner to the student. According to you, it's not the school's fault that the student has doubts; it's the student's fault for being ignorant.

Not too big to grasp......and I said nothing about his intelligence. You're running away with your verbiage. I'm merely trying to identify with his doubts. Again, I attended virtually every class with my son at our dojang, watched him advance over the last two years to Blue Belt, helped with arranging class attendance at tournaments, and based on some dabbling in Shorin Ryu many years ago I even helped with coaching at those events when necessary......I had a very good idea, or so I thought, about what I would be getting in to when I started on the floor. Then my own insecurities about what I thought I could or couldn't do crept in.....I never really considered quitting, but I really wondered about how certain aspects of the training that I'd viewed for so long could ever be mastered.

At any rate, I'd sincerely like to hear more about your training, as well as that of the OP.

 

[Steve]

I would view a term of two years of training as no longer a mere aspiration.

Fair enough. I guess I'm a little more conservative, but the main thing is that, whether a person is the next coming of Bruce Lee or not, he also remains a consumer... that is, until he opens his own school and assumes the role on the other side of the coin.

As I admitted, my view is perhaps somewhat skewed.....we have a very close student/instructor relationship in a very small town. I have no problem in admitting that, on this particular point, I may well have blinders on.

I understand where you're coming from. Even in your situation, however, you remain a consumer. In business, it's actually good practice to cultivate a relationship with customers. Even in large chains, like Starbucks, it's expected that the baristas will call regulars by name and remember their usual drinks.

Psychologically, people will forgive the occasional poor service because they believe there is a personal bond with that business. While a person might not feel tied to the Starbucks, they feel connected to THEIR Starbucks and the friendly people who call them by name.

In the same way, many martial arts schools try to repress the business aspect and promote the "family" aspect. While I have no idea whether your school is top notch or not (but would presume so), if quality begins to slip it's going to put a lot of undue pressure on the students facing the choice of leaving what they realize is a poor studio, or staying out of loyalty.

You misunderstand.....I had no interest in the other styles mentioned. I was invited to sample some of the training. Had I expressed a desire to learn them, then by my own admission I would be now in danger of being labeled a hypocrite.

In the same way, the OP has only a vague idea of what interests him. He's 2 months into his martial arts training. Once again, I want to emphasize a distinction between informed opinions about an art or style and a competent opinion as a consumer or customer.

Once again you misunderstand. My whole goal of participating in forums such as this is to learn from others......not to attempt to win arguments.

A laudable goal. I really have no particular desire to win arguments, either. I am very interested in making my points clear and being understood. If, after that point, you still disagree with me, I'm totally okay with it. Of course, this goes both ways.

As an example, can you talk to me about how BJJ is less grueling on the body? What in your opinion makes it less so? I'm truly interested in what you have to say on the matter.

I'd be happy to discuss this with you, but I think that it would be better done in another thread. If I have some time, I'll start one in the general MA section. Better yet, you could start it.

I didn't mean to imply that you suggested that he abandon TKD. On the contrary.....my feeling is simply that at his level, with the lack of confidence he himself expressed, he may be jumping the gun, but then I totally agree that his chosen school may well indeed be total crap. I just think that perhaps he needs a little more time to make that determination, unless of course he can find a way to sample the training of another school while continuing where he is......as a comparison.

My opinion is that, if he can't leave the school so that he can sample others in the community without burning bridges, there's a real red flag there in itself. Companies and businesses that resort to locking new customers into contracts and legal obligations, like many gyms do, are ones I would avoid.

I said nothing of the kind. If I left you with that impression, I apologize. Perhaps I didn't make myself clear. An expert? No. Yet as a white belt with little confidence, I'd be hard pressed to accept his opinion without knowing more about his training.

Okay. Let me try to be more clear. As a white belt, I would be hard pressed to accept his opinions about TKD. Form, function, technique... the OP's lack of experience would have to be considered. As a customer? American's (along with most of the rest of the world) are black belts in consuming, having been trained since childhood. We know bad service when we see it.

As I see it, some of the behavior he mentioned does seem a bit quirky, but then other instructors have offered up possible explanations for said.

And I would say that this is largely irrelevant as one's personal threshold for service and expectations in any business relationship are unique to the individual. He might not like that the instructor gives him the stinkeye when he makes a mistake. He might not like that the floor is red. He may think that the disinfectant used to clean the mats smells like balogna. It really doesn't matter.

"Patronizing garbage". Yeah......that was a little abrasive.

I apologize for being abrasive. Let me know in a few months, though, after you meet my friend TwinFist whether you still consider me abrasive. (Just kidding, Twinfist! )

Not too big to grasp......and I said nothing about his intelligence. You're running away with your verbiage. I'm merely trying to identify with his doubts. Again, I attended virtually every class with my son at our dojang, watched him advance over the last two years to Blue Belt, helped with arranging class attendance at tournaments, and based on some dabbling in Shorin Ryu many years ago I even helped with coaching at those events when necessary......I had a very good idea, or so I thought, about what I would be getting in to when I started on the floor. Then my own insecurities about what I thought I could or couldn't do crept in.....I never really considered quitting, but I really wondered about how certain aspects of the training that I'd viewed for so long could ever be mastered.

Hold on. Back up just a little. The point I was making is that you seem to be shifting the responsibility onto the student... for whatever reason. You're suggesting that he is the one not competent to make an informed decision. I disagree. I believe that, whether the student is competent or not, the responsibility lies squarely on the shoulders of the owner of the business. If he fails to make a good impression with a prospective or new student, he will likely lose that student. If he consistently fails to make a good impression, he will likely lose many students. And ultimately, if he fails to retain a sufficient number of students to keep his business going, he failed primarily as a business person, for whatever reason.

And at no point is the student responsible.