Siu Lim Tau Comparison

[KPM]

We didn't make the original claim that the elbow idea from SNT is universal in YM lineages.

So far, people have demonstrated that it is not.

I actually agreed with you that the elbow idea isn't so central in most Wing Chun as you have described for WSLVT. I simply pointed out that at least one area where most other versions of Wing Chun do have the same idea of the elbow as the driver is when doing the "excluding" or "cutting" punch. And you have responded by doing your best to prove even that one little tidbit is wrong, to the point of denying what I was doing and what I described in my video example. Same old song, different thread.

 

[KPM]

Forum doing wanking things. Deleted.

 

[KPM]

So given information in this thread, what are the most likely explanations for YM VT being different?

The first explanation would be that YM created these differences himself. The second would be that this information was lost from other older systems over time.

Any opinions?

Why are you asking this? This has been belaboured and beaten to death on other threads and you know very well that it is a point of contention that you will argue about until doomsday. So why are you bringing it up again?

 

[guy b]

Why are you asking this? This has been belaboured and beaten to death on other threads and you know very well that it is a point of contention that you will argue about until doomsday. So why are you bringing it up again?

I am happy to believe that YM created YM VT, or received the method from somewhere else.

Previously these discussions have been focused within YM VT (looking at the various different interpretations). It is interesting to consider why YM method differs from mainland.

Maybe some mainland people have theories on this?

 

[KPM]

^^^^^^ So you are happy with believing that Ip Man created YMVT, but absolutely adamant that WSL did not change or adapt WSLVT in any way????

 

[guy b]

Well you know how the Leung Bic story goes..

WSL always claimed to teach the system of YM

YM claimed to teach something different. Who can say where it came from now?

 

[Gerry Seymour]

That was said in response to the "if it works, that's all that matters" attitude.

But if something actually works, then it is, in fact, improving their percentage. If it's not doing that, it probably doesn't work. Now, they may not choose the absolutely highest percentage technique at a given point, but there's usually a reason for that compromise - it sets up something else that's useful (or used differently) in their style.

Not always the case, but IMO, that's usually what the difference in approach between styles (and even arts) boils down to. My approach to NGA, for instance, focuses on some different principles than mainline focuses on. My choices set up some advantages that I like. Their choices set up a different set of advantages, that they like better.

I was speaking more to the likely way the tone would be interpreted. I get the feeling that you are really trying to have a meaningful discussion, but the perceived tone sometimes gets in the way.

 

[LFJ]

I actually agreed with you that the elbow idea isn't so central in most Wing Chun as you have described for WSLVT. I simply pointed out that at least one area where most other versions of Wing Chun do have the same idea of the elbow as the driver is when doing the "excluding" or "cutting" punch. And you have responded by doing your best to prove even that one little tidbit is wrong, to the point of denying what I was doing and what I described in my video example. Same old song, different thread.

You guys were the only ones ever talking about the "elbow as the driver". I've repeatedly stated that elbow force is not the idea. Although, that's about the extent of the elbow focus in other WC.

 

[LFJ]

But if something actually works, then it is, in fact, improving their percentage. If it's not doing that, it probably doesn't work.

Something that works 10% of the time works some times. If you keep doing something with a 10% success rate, though, it is not improving percentages no matter how much you do it. Changes have to be made.

Some people are content with their percentages if something has worked once before. I'm always looking to improve mine, even if 100% isn't actually attainable.

I get the feeling that you are really trying to have a meaningful discussion, but the perceived tone sometimes gets in the way.

Then change your perception? Juany wanted to play victim just because I made an observation on some inconsistencies, saying I was taking shots on his lineage. That couldn't have been perceived from my posts without him choosing to take offense rather than be honest, acknowledge a valid point, and move on.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Something that works 10% of the time works some times. If you keep doing something with a 10% success rate, though, it is not improving percentages no matter how much you do it. Changes have to be made.

Some people are content with their percentages if something has worked once before. I'm always looking to improve mine, even if 100% isn't actually attainable.



Then change your perception? Juany wanted to play victim just because I made an observation on some inconsistencies, saying I was taking shots on his lineage. That couldn't have been perceived from my posts without him choosing to take offense rather than be honest, acknowledge a valid point, and move on.

I'm trying to be helpful and point out how your wording may foster reactions. What you do with that (including deciding it's not worthwhile) is entirely up to you.

 

[Nobody Important]

Seems very different so far, from what I have seen. Given that KPM's punch is one of your gate punches then your system appears to lack elbow ideas.

For something that is WC 101, gaining this small and probably to you irrelevant bit of info has been incredibly difficult.

You give the impression that having everything is a matter of pride. Why not just be content with your system as it is? After all since YKS senior to YM, maybe YM had it all wrong from your point of view.

I'm just fine with what I have. Gate punch is simple & basic, sorry you never learned it. Please continue to go on pretending you contain some mysterious elbow mechanics in your branch. All this mud slinging because you refuse to provide a video of yourself showing us how to do it properly.

 

[Nobody Important]

Well you know how the Leung Bic story goes..

WSL always claimed to teach the system of YM

YM claimed to teach something different. Who can say where it came from now?

Thats the story people tell when they make things up. I didn't didn't do it, I learned it from so and so. Pretty popular thing to do in TCMA.

 

[Nobody Important]

I like how the script got flipped, deflected and changed, typical. All because they we're asked to provide video of themselves showing the correct manner in which to perform the technique in question.

Take your BS over to your thread, where this topic should be being discussed.

 

[guy b]

Thats the story people tell when they make things up. I didn't didn't do it, I learned it from so and so. Pretty popular thing to do in TCMA.

Lol, exactly. I was sparing KPM another round of that argument

 

[guy b]

I like how the script got flipped, deflected and changed, typical. All because they we're asked to provide video of themselves showing the correct manner in which to perform the technique in question.

Take your BS over to your thread, where this topic should be being discussed.

I'm just fine with what I have. Gate punch is simple & basic, sorry you never learned it. Please continue to go on pretending you contain some mysterious elbow mechanics in your branch. All this mud slinging because you refuse to provide a video of yourself showing us how to do it properly.

Gate punch appears to lack basic elbow ideas.

You didn't need to join the conversation and reveal this issue, it was your decision. But useful to know more about your system.

 

[guy b]

Gate punch is simple & basic, sorry you never learned it.

So simple it took you about 5 pages to come to any decision about what it entails?

Sounds like I dodged a bullet with that simple and basic stuff

 

[Nobody Important]

Gate punch appears to lack basic elbow ideas.

You didn't need to join the conversation and reveal this issue, it was your decision. But useful to know more about your system.

Spare me your rhetoric, it doesn't lack elbow ideas. It lacks YOUR elbow ideas, big difference.

It's my thread, it's been derailed. My thread was hijacked because the thread on Cutting Punch wasn't gaining any headway. So the discussion was dragged over here under the guise of SNT.

If you're so eager to prove your point, post a video clearly detailing this "cutting punch" concept and explain how it is so vastly different from a WSL VT approach.

You have no issues ridiculing others for videos they post, please extend the courtesy by posting your own if you are so confident in your knowledge. At the very least you could offer a detailed description.

 

[Nobody Important]

So simple it took you about 5 pages to come to any decision about what it entails?

Sounds like I dodged a bullet with that simple and basic stuff

I explained it clearly several times. I can't help it you have difficulty in reading comprehension. I , at least took the time to explain, why have you yet to provide a description or explanation?

 

[LFJ]

it doesn't lack elbow ideas. It lacks YOUR elbow ideas, big difference.

It lacks YMVT ideas. We were discussing this claim of the basic elbow focus being "universal in YM lineages".

You train something else. So, I don't know why you're even joining the discussion with your thing and getting upset about it when we say it lacks the YMVT ideas.

It's my thread, it's been derailed. My thread was hijacked because the thread on Cutting Punch wasn't gaining any headway. So the discussion was dragged over here under the guise of SNT.

The discussion on the elbow was started right here and is intimately related to SNT in YMVT.

That thread was made to isolate it. You asked us to take the discussion there, but you are continuing it here instead, and now crying about it?

 

[Nobody Important]

It lacks YMVT ideas. We were discussing this claim of the basic elbow focus being "universal in YM lineages".

You train something else. So, I don't know why you're even joining the discussion with your thing and getting upset about it when we say it lacks the YMVT ideas.



The discussion on the elbow was started right here and is intimately related to SNT in YMVT.

That thread was made to isolate it. You asked us to take the discussion there, but you are continuing it here instead, and now crying about it?

Lol, please, I'm crying about nothing. I'm only continuing the conversation because I'm being asked questions. Perhaps if you don't want others joining in be more specific about the topic. When I entered this conversation it was concerning cutting/exclusion/gate punching not specifically about WSL VT/YM VT elbow ideas.

Does your WC include this method in question? If so please provide example how it is different. If you don't, then I don't see the need to argue with others about it.