Siu Bot Gwa

[dlcox]

I think I am somewhere in between the viewpoints expressed by Dave and Eric. On the one hand, Wing Chun is very diverse I would bet some of the things we do in Pin Sun would not adhere to what Eric defines a proper Wing Chun concepts. Yet Pin Sun comes from Leung Jan and has been preserved pretty much intact in Ku Lo village. Fung Siu Ching's line diverged from Leung Jan's line long ago. So it makes sense that their descendants have evolved in different directions. So I can see Dave's point in that who are we to say someone's Wing Chun is wrong or incorrect?

Yet.....there has obviously been lots of "mixing" in some of the mainland lineages. At some point, technique starts to diverge from what most of us would consider Wing Chun, despite whether it is guided by Wing Chun concepts or not. And some technique, while giving lip service to Wing Chun concepts, really doesn't follow them despite what their lineage says. Just because a Chinese guy two generations ago decided to blend some other method (animal or otherwise) with the Wing Chun he learned, declare himself a "grandmaster" and proceed to teach his new method to the masses.....doesn't necessarily mean that what he came up with isn't a bunch a crap, despite what his followers may think. So yea, I can see where Eric is coming from as well. ;-)

In the end is comes down to what the individual wants to do. If someone likes preserving and being part of a tradition of Wing Chun with fancy flag dancing, lots of archaic weapons and animal forms, then more power to him! If someone likes the simplicity and directness of Wing Chun concepts and technique and just wants to do what works for them, then more power to them as well! I see nothing wrong with eliminating some of the superfluous stuff that may have been added in the past if it really adds nothing to effectiveness in today's world. Personally, I don't see a lot of value in spending time on the Butterfly knives. I have replaced them with the tactical folder, which is much more applicable than 2 short swords in today's world. On the other hand, I am not going to start eliminating any of the solo sets in Pin Sun I have learned, because I don't trust my own knowledge and abilities to know exactly what to do away with! What I see as pointless today, I may very well discover is important later! Sparring most definitely does NOT teach you everything you might needed in a real encounter.

Anyway, I think I am rambling now so I will shut up! But good discussion!

Thank you Keith for your leveled headed and unbiased response I am in total agreement with your assessment.

 

[Kwan Sau]

All, thanks for all the discussion and input regarding my original topic!
Good to know there is/are many talented Wing Chun people out there!!!
Wish we could all meet up some day. That would be awesome.

 

[kung fu fighter]

I think we are talking in circles here.

The siu bot gwa is about walking in circles, no pun intended lol

 

[KPM]

Lets start over, hello my name is Dave I do Wing Chun......

Hi Dave! My name is Keith. Its been 6 days since my last Wing Chun fix and I'm feeling a little shaky. :cheers:

 

[futsaowingchun]

I know I said I was done but please bear with me a moment.



Believe it or not I agree with you here, it's simply trying to get everyone to agree on what constitutes a "Core" that is problematic. This is one of the factors that have led to the splintering of Yong Chun.




Again I agree, but the problem lies in everyone's interpretation of "Original Essence".



And here is the rabbit hole, again there has to be a consensus as to not only how a situation is approached but also on what is the best principle, concept and theory to be applied and by which methods/techniques relay these best according to the individual's preference of use and understanding of the concepts, principles and theory. A boxer will not approach it the same as a grappler, etc. This becomes a real issue when trying to iron out "Standards" especially when concepts are subject to various methods of Jin. Mindset and approach to combat are greatly affected by personal belief, religious faith, cultural influence, societal norms etc. Whether we accept it or not these things do play a factor into how we do things even in a self defense situation, hence it will affect our arts.

I'm all for everyone having their own way, it doesn't mean I have to accept it and with some I don't, but I will not dismiss them as "Illegitimate" simply because I do not agree. For all I know I could be wrong in my thinking and approach they could be right. I won't be so pompous to presume I know it all.



In all sincerity I apologize for the insinuation. Lets start over, hello my name is Dave I do Wing Chun......

martial arts should free you not enslave you,stop worrying about what is wing chun and what is not. The longer I train The more I see its about you not the style or system. When your leaning M.A, you should follow the sifu and do what he says,but when you become a teacher you should find your own way. I'm bigger then Wing Chun,and eventhough wing chun is the art I love I can see past it. I
can see wing chun in allmost any martial art. So all martial arts are connected and share a similar root. If you know that root no need to have a myopic mindset.

 

[futsaowingchun]

The siu bot gwa is about walking in circles, no pun intended lol

ause

Do you know why we walk in circles? because we are chasing our tails...