SideKicks

[kidswarrior]

I've got that book, too! It was my dad's. I recently found it again (I had lost it for many years after it was packed away in a box).

Very interesting to read it again from a new perspective.

While many respected and knowledgable martial artists use/advocate the blade of the foot, I will ALWAYS use the bottom of the heel.

"Different strokes for different folks" I suppose.

Yeah, kind of what I was thinking, too.

 

[kidswarrior]

Not my best kick either. The knee is a good target, as is the bladder. Another good target is the anterior (front) of the hip joint. A properly placed kick could cause a posterior dislocation of the hip. Even if it doesn't it will slow the guy down and bend him over, presenting the head for all kinds of mayhem.

Great point! In Kung Fu San Soo, this is even a target for a hard (full body) punch--or, double punch. Will definitely take his balance.

Other good targets if his feet are offset are inside of thighs, and inside of shin--especially if wearing shoes (then, any part of shin).

 

[zDom]

Another good target is the anterior (front) of the hip joint. A properly placed kick could cause a posterior dislocation of the hip. Even if it doesn't it will slow the guy down and bend him over, presenting the head for all kinds of mayhem.

Yep — I've always thought that would be a prime target for a side kick (or front kick!) as well. Difficult to block or avoid.

 

[Tez3]

When doing it with the heel is there anything different I should do from the 'normal' side kick?

 

[jdinca]

When doing it with the heel is there anything different I should do from the 'normal' side kick?

To me, with the heel is a normal side kick. Just remember the "pop" comes from the speed of the standing foot pivot.

 

[Tez3]

To me, with the heel is a normal side kick. Just remember the "pop" comes from the speed of the standing foot pivot.

Cheers! I'm going to practice that!

 

[jdinca]

Great point! In Kung Fu San Soo, this is even a target for a hard (full body) punch--or, double punch. Will definitely take his balance.

Other good targets if his feet are offset are inside of thighs, and inside of shin--especially if wearing shoes (then, any part of shin).

I actually found that out by accident in a point sparring match. I hit the front of his hip, he dropped his guards and turned to the side. It was the roundhouse to gut that got the point.

A thrust kick to any part of the knee, or close by works for me!

 

[MrE2Me2]

To all,

I practice my side kick with both the heel and the blade.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PdgyLv9pYvE&feature=PlayList&p=B5BF1833DCBB3236&index=3

And I’ve found that both have advantages and disadvantages.

Using the heel tends to leave my groin open longer than using the blade.
I find this is especially true if I kick to the solar plexus.

The other problem I have with the heel is that the whole thing takes longer than using the blade.
Also there is the problem of using the heel repeatedly in succession (for me, it’s slow).

But all that being said; the heel kick can be tucked or extended making it a more flexible kick.
It’s harder to see coming and done low, it is very hard to defend against.

On the other hand, using the blade exposes the top of the ankle to descending elbows.
And the range must be absolutely perfect or it’ll fail.

It also took me considerably longer to get strong enough and quick enough to use it properly.
I actually practiced it like this for a while before turning into a proper snap kick.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5M4UbZKRpnY&feature=PlayList&p=B5BF1833DCBB3236&index=9

The side snap kick (with the blade) is the kick I now prefer when practicing.
It is just faster and easier to use for me.

It took me a long time to get to trusting myself enough to be able to do this without hurting my ankle.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TK9WluPM3Ic&feature=PlayList&p=93BA4EB07BDBA20E&index=13

I really liked what Kidswarrior said:
“Side blade is for targets that can be 'cut', i.e. are meaty, as thigh, lower abdomen, side of knee, side of calf…. Side heel (what I call side thrust), I like for sturdier, harder, or bonier targets such as solid part of trunk, hip crease, lower back, straight on knee, ankle (almost a stomp), and the like.”

But both types are fast and powerful.
And both have their place in my toolbox too (as it were).

Regards, MrE2Me2

 

[kidswarrior]

To all,

I practice my side kick with both the heel and the blade.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PdgyLv9pYvE&feature=PlayList&p=B5BF1833DCBB3236&index=3

And I’ve found that both have advantages and disadvantages.

Using the heel tends to leave my groin open longer than using the blade.
I find this is especially true if I kick to the solar plexus.

The other problem I have with the heel is that the whole thing takes longer than using the blade.
Also there is the problem of using the heel repeatedly in succession (for me, it’s slow).

But all that being said; the heel kick can be tucked or extended making it a more flexible kick.
It’s harder to see coming and done low, it is very hard to defend against.

On the other hand, using the blade exposes the top of the ankle to descending elbows.
And the range must be absolutely perfect or it’ll fail.

It also took me considerably longer to get strong enough and quick enough to use it properly.
I actually practiced it like this for a while before turning into a proper snap kick.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5M4UbZKRpnY&feature=PlayList&p=B5BF1833DCBB3236&index=9

The side snap kick (with the blade) is the kick I now prefer when practicing.
It is just faster and easier to use for me.

It took me a long time to get to trusting myself enough to be able to do this without hurting my ankle.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TK9WluPM3Ic&feature=PlayList&p=93BA4EB07BDBA20E&index=13

I really liked what Kidswarrior said:
“Side blade is for targets that can be 'cut', i.e. are meaty, as thigh, lower abdomen, side of knee, side of calf…. Side heel (what I call side thrust), I like for sturdier, harder, or bonier targets such as solid part of trunk, hip crease, lower back, straight on knee, ankle (almost a stomp), and the like.”

But both types are fast and powerful.
And both have their place in my toolbox too (as it were).

Regards, MrE2Me2

Well thought out and documented first post!

And welcome to Martial Talk!!!

 

[DavidCC]

The other problem I have with the heel is that the whole thing takes longer than using the blade.
Also there is the problem of using the heel repeatedly in succession (for me, it’s slow).

... Regards, MrE2Me2

I don't understand why it would be slower, do you have any idea why?

-D

 

[kidswarrior]

I don't understand why it would be slower, do you have any idea why?

-D

Why is a thrust kick slower than a front ball kick? Maybe for some people it isn't. But sure is for me. I think of it as similar to difference between a jab and R/ cross. Much difference in speed/effect. But maybe that's just me.

 

[DavidCC]

Why is a thrust kick slower than a front ball kick? Maybe for some people it isn't. But sure is for me. I think of it as similar to difference between a jab and R/ cross. Much difference in speed/effect. But maybe that's just me.

Oh, sorry I must have mis-read. I thought it said a side thrust kick was slower than a side blade kick.

 

[MrE2Me2]

Hello Kidswarrior,

You asked about the difference in speed between two types of side kicks.
The easiest way for me to explain this is also a way to kill two birds with one stone.

I finally have enough time to start video taping my techniques at “youtube”, again.
(So this will give me a reason to do that while I answer your question.)

The shortest answer is that my hips tilt after I step and before I kick in the side thrust kick.
(Done slowly, here.)

The side snap kick incorporates the tilt in the step as I execute a side snap kick(for me).
(Also done here, slowly.)

Comparing the two types makes it easier to see the difference in speed.
(Use this link.)

Both types of side kicks use the same number of moves from horse to extended leg (four).
But I step and tilt at the same time while snapping my side kick.

I tilt my hips when kicking while doing a back kick but my back is to my opponent for a split second.
(As I demonstrate here.)

Hello DavidCC,

I almost posted over you .L.O.L.!
You posted, “I thought it said a side thrust kick was slower than a side blade kick.”
Uh…for me the thrust is slightly slower.

Regards, MrE2Me2

 

[DavidCC]

Both of those kicks appear to be quite different than the side kicks we use. We use an extension of the leg in a straight line, those appear to be circular at the knee... hard to tell from one video angle though. thanks for posting those vids

-D

 

[MrE2Me2]

DavidCC,


You commented that my side kicks did not look like yours.
That yours were more in line.


Did they look more like this?


Slow:

Faster:

Regards, MrE2Me2

 

[Christina05]

What Andrew Green said. The same reason you punch with the first two knuckles. More power and less likelihood of breaking your ankle.

I agree.

 

[KempoFlow]

For a traditional side kick the heel.

 

[DavidCC]

DavidCC,


You commented that my side kicks did not look like yours.
That yours were more in line.


Did they look more like this?


Slow:

Faster:

Regards, MrE2Me2

yes, that is the linear action that resembles our side kicks. When teaching it to the kids I start them off by stomping straight down...

I still need to try the kicks from your original videos, see how my heavy bag likes'em.

 

[jdinca]

To all,

I practice my side kick with both the heel and the blade.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PdgyLv9pYvE&feature=PlayList&p=B5BF1833DCBB3236&index=3

And I’ve found that both have advantages and disadvantages.

Using the heel tends to leave my groin open longer than using the blade.
I find this is especially true if I kick to the solar plexus.

The other problem I have with the heel is that the whole thing takes longer than using the blade.
Also there is the problem of using the heel repeatedly in succession (for me, it’s slow).

But all that being said; the heel kick can be tucked or extended making it a more flexible kick.
It’s harder to see coming and done low, it is very hard to defend against.

On the other hand, using the blade exposes the top of the ankle to descending elbows.
And the range must be absolutely perfect or it’ll fail.

It also took me considerably longer to get strong enough and quick enough to use it properly.
I actually practiced it like this for a while before turning into a proper snap kick.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5M4UbZKRpnY&feature=PlayList&p=B5BF1833DCBB3236&index=9

The side snap kick (with the blade) is the kick I now prefer when practicing.
It is just faster and easier to use for me.

It took me a long time to get to trusting myself enough to be able to do this without hurting my ankle.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TK9WluPM3Ic&feature=PlayList&p=93BA4EB07BDBA20E&index=13

I really liked what Kidswarrior said:
“Side blade is for targets that can be 'cut', i.e. are meaty, as thigh, lower abdomen, side of knee, side of calf…. Side heel (what I call side thrust), I like for sturdier, harder, or bonier targets such as solid part of trunk, hip crease, lower back, straight on knee, ankle (almost a stomp), and the like.”

But both types are fast and powerful.
And both have their place in my toolbox too (as it were).

Regards, MrE2Me2

Those are similar to two of our kicks. The blade kick (knife edge) is a light, fast kick to fragile targets, knee, floating rib, throat. The side thrust with the heel is a power kick designed to deliver maximum impact.

Try bringing your back arm foward, i.e., have your fist somewhere around your stomach. I think you'll find that minor anatomic change will noticeably improve your ability to correctly execute the kick.

 

[kidswarrior]

Those are similar to two of our kicks. The blade kick (knife edge) is a light, fast kick to fragile targets, knee, floating rib, throat. The side thrust with the heel is a power kick designed to deliver maximum impact.

Yes, thank you. :ultracool