Showing It All

[Marginal]

While reading thru some of the various posts on here, I've noticed some who seem to wonder why our teachers don't show everything to us, why they leave some things 'hidden' rather than just come right out and give us all of the 'secrets.'

Now, IMHO, I'd rather have my teacher make me think for myself, rather than just saying, "Here ya go Mike! I'm showing it all to you so you don't have to do any legwork. I've done it all for you!"

Even if you're shown everything, it doesn't mean you know everything, understand everything etc. For example, you can be shown a technique, practice it etc, but until it clicks with you, it's not really going to be a useful technique for you because you don't understand it.

You have to make that journey on your own either way IMO.

 

[newGuy12]

I don't know...maybe I was just taught differently, but I just can't see going from white to black, and having every little thing handed to me, explained to me, without having to do any thinking for myself.

The only thing which troubles me about this is: Who is teaching? I cannot teach myself. That is what the teacher is for. Now, once the student has the black belt (they then have a good knowledge of the basics), they experiment, they explore.

Up till then, they are too busy trying to become acclimated to the basic techniques.

Think about academia, do undergraduates write a thesis? No. Later, however, once they have been exposed to this learning to a high point, THEN, they will do research under the supervision of a thesis advisor, a professor. But that comes later.

Maybe its just how I was taught. Yes, that must have a lot of bearing on how I see this. It was how it was for me. A kick is shown, you practice the kick. The kick is then corrected as needed. More practice.

Another kick is shown, and so on. Its all there. Not the same for other marital arts, though. In that case, there is a WHOLE LOT more (and I'm not just making reference to forms/kata/hyung/tul).

 

[jks9199]

I will explain a technique, for example, an arm bar by saying :
step to the outside , do a middle block , grab the wrist while placing pressure on or hitting the elbow. Then I will do the technique. What I may not explain the sliding of the blocking hand to the wrist or the turning of their wrist so the elbow is in proper place for the strike, or how the lower half of my body is doing things to their body as i am doing the technique. I may also not explain the angle of the block/strike on the elbow. Those that have studied with me long enough or know me well realizes that i leave much out of my verbal explanation and I expect student to be able to find those things i leave out.

There's often simply no way to effectively break out all the pieces and elements of a given technique as you demonstrate and teach it. It's not deliberate withholding of the information -- it's simply overlooking or omitting parts that aren't relevant to the day's instruction. Or even simply forgetting that element that the instructor has integrated so thoroughly that it's disappeared from conscious knowledge. (And that's not even touching simply unconciously doing one thing and saying the other.)

I tell my students that they have to not only listen when someone is teaching, but watch and learn to use their eyes like a video tape; they have to see what the instructor did, then be able to replay it and compare it, then adjust till they're doing what the instructor did. Which isn't always the same as what they said...

 

[Xue Sheng]

Now, IMHO, I'd rather have my teacher make me think for myself, rather than just saying, "Here ya go Mike! I'm showing it all to you so you don't have to do any legwork. I've done it all for you!"

BINGO!!

There are no secrets, there is just a time that you are ready to learn what is being taught and a good teacher can figure out when that is.

My Sifu is very good at the simple movement or a couple of word explanation and then saying "do you understand" and generally I do. I can remember in the beginning seeing him do this to students senior to me and not having a clue as to what he was talking about. But I did not understand the style well enough to understand what he was telling them.

You have to do the leg work if you want to be good at any martial art. But even if your teacher walks in and shows you everything in detail you are not going to magically become a master, you haven't put in the time necessary to understand or do what has been shown.

 

[Kreth]

You have to do the leg work if you want to be good at any martial art. But even if your teacher walks in and shows you everything in detail you are not going to magically become a master, you haven't put in the time necessary to understand or do what has been shown.

I would also say that you not only have to do the leg work, but not be afraid of failure in the dojo. I would MUCH rather see a student attempt a technique and screw it up badly then do nothing at all for fear of failure. The dojo is your place to screw up, and learn from those mistakes.

 

[Xue Sheng]

I would also say that you not only have to do the leg work, but not be afraid of failure in the dojo. I would MUCH rather see a student attempt a technique and screw it up badly then do nothing at all for fear of failure. The dojo is your place to screw up, and learn from those mistakes.

Agreed

As my Wing Chun sifu, and just about every other Wing Chun guy I have ever talked to has said "Invest in loss" Or as my Taiji sifu said "Learn form loosing"

 

[Kacey]

My views are simple to teach what they can handle at that time, they must first and foremost understand every aspect of the tech. beefore I move on o the next one with them. Also it is good to hold back certain thing until you get to know them and the characture, I.E. if they can handle being put in a position with the techs. being tought. I mean if you cannot teach someone a choke hold if they are to immature and everytime they do something they try to kill there opponet.

I think it is always important for any teacher to teach in a way
that encourages the student to do critical thinking. This then
allows them to have an opportunity to grow and that is what
we are striving for them to do.

But, you see, you cannot overload the student with too much knowledge at the beginning, or they will curse you and storm out of the school!!! It is too bewildering!

I agree with all of the above. The longer someone remains my student, the more I will teach them - but if I try to teach everything at once, I will so overload them that the information becomes useless. In addition, some things are best discovered for oneself... also, I have found that if I say "this block is used to stop this attack" then my students will take that as gospel and assume it can't be used for anything else. Because of that, I am much more likely to say "this block is intended to stop/deflect/break/etc. attacks coming to this section of the body", along with details such as best for hard strikes, best for foot strikes, best for high strikes, etc., and then allow my students to experiment and find the uses that work best for them. If they don't discover a use that I want them to know, then I may show them one, or direct them to use a certain technique and see if it works - but I try to avoid just saying "this block is for this attack" because I find it limits their understanding of application, and therefore their usage of techniques.

I found that once I started teaching this way - giving target zones rather than specific targets for strikes and blocks - that my students' understanding of applications, and their ability to find new applications, increased incredibly. They still come up with uses that aren't effective - but when they show me what they've come up with and we discuss why a particular application does or doesn't work, they understand what they're doing and, at more senior ranks, how to make those determinations for themselves, rather than just parroting what they've been told and not thinking for themselves - and IMHO thinking for themselves is what ultimately makes them effective.

 

[Cirdan]

A teacher can show the student the path to the top of the mountain but you will have to climb it. He can show you a picture but you must go there yourself to really experience it. Would you have him carry you there on his back? Would that accomplish anything?

 

[morph4me]

I don't think that instructors are hiding anything, just waiting for the students to be ready to learn it.

When I was first starting to teach I used to try to teach everything I knew about a technique and confused the hell out of the people I was trying to teach. In retrospect, I think that I was making sure that I knew the details of the technique I was teaching. I learned with experience that I can only teach what someone is ready to learn, anything more than that wastes both of our time.

 

[MJS]

Even if you're shown everything, it doesn't mean you know everything, understand everything etc. For example, you can be shown a technique, practice it etc, but until it clicks with you, it's not really going to be a useful technique for you because you don't understand it.

You have to make that journey on your own either way IMO.

Great points! This is why, IMO, I feel that the journey never really ends. There comes a point and time when you need to start over, so to speak, and really look at what you think you know.

 

[kidswarrior]

I would also say that you not only have to do the leg work, but not be afraid of failure in the dojo. I would MUCH rather see a student attempt a technique and screw it up badly then do nothing at all for fear of failure. The dojo is your place to screw up, and learn from those mistakes.

A great point that I think is often overlooked or taken for granted. I've studied with teachers who encouraged me when I fell on my butt. But I've also studied under teachers who believed I should seriously get down on myself for anything less than perfection.

So while I'm with Kreth in following the former model of encouragement, I don't assume all teachers agree or do the same.

As my Wing Chun sifu, and just about every other Wing Chun guy I have ever talked to has said "Invest in loss" Or as my Taiji sifu said "Learn form loosing"

Exactly how I want my students to see it, too.

How does this relate to the OP? The teacher must know how much each student is able to integrate with relative success (read: a modicum of failure--otherwise, there is no growth going on), before teaching the next 'level' of stuff. This is not hiding anything; it is protecting the student from overload, which can too easily lead to failure and students quitting the art.

 

[Flying Crane]

In my experience, sometimes the student is not knowledgeable enough yet to fully understand everything, so if the instructor tries to give him everything, it will just overflow and be meaningless.

I've definitely had moments where something my sifu said years ago suddenly made sense, but it took those years of training first, before I had the experience and perspective to understand what he meant. And that inspired me to ask some questions, leading to some deeper understanding. But until I was ready to ask those questions, I was not yet ready to understand the answers.

So sometimes holding back is not done to deliberately keep the student in the dark. It's done because the student simply lacks the ability to understand what comes next. And sometimes students are impatient and don't stick around long enough to reach that point of understanding. So then the sifu gets blamed because he "held back some secrets", when in truth, the students lacked the commitment to stick with it.

 

[Xue Sheng]

I've definitely had moments where something my sifu said years ago suddenly made sense, but it took those years of training first, before I had the experience and perspective to understand what he meant.

Yup, been there.

 

[thardey]

One of the most useful pieces of advice I learned long before Karate: Whenever you teach, always have a point! Decide what exactly your point is going to be, and then make sure for that session, that everything moves you towards that point. Good teachers do this instinctively.

If something does not directly strengthen your point, don't include it! It is nothing other than a distraction. It can be hard not to include all the information you have on one particular subject, but you have to be strong, and save that piece of information for another class when it is relevant to the point you are trying to make.

So, with application to karate, say the teacher asks me to take a blue belt aside to help them work on their one-steps. I've noticed that the student is hesitant in class, and awkward. So I decide that she needs to work on "flow", so the routine is smoother. As much as there is to teach about one-steps, if it does not directly help her flow better, I will not teach it at that time. I will only focus on certain things: snapping your hips, not for power today, but for putting your body in a good position for another strike. I won't focus so much on a lower stance, as I will for foot positioning relative to your partner. I may focus more on combinations of targets, and not accuracy for each specific target, Etc.

Another day I may work with her on one-steps again, but today she is less awkward, but is weak. Now I will go through her hip-snap, stances, and strikes all over again, but this time with the "point" of developing power.

Teachers that try to include every detail about every move often end up with confused and frustrated students. Good teachers know how to include those details which are relevant to what they are teaching, and who can focus on different points throughout the curriculum, and don't get stuck on one point over and over.