should tai chi forms ........

[mfinn]

Indeed.

 

[Elbowgrease]

I think I see a lot of leaning going on.
In my humble opinion.
Backs look straight, I don't see anyone hunching, but everyone visible in the video looks like they are leaning forward (falling down...).
Supreme Grand Ultimate Pole. The head holding up heaven. Straight up and down. My Sifu would have pushed me/pulled me straight onto the ground if he saw me move like that. ("You move like a thief, if a grappler sees you do that they're going to take it...")

 

[mograph]

Oh, but Xue, can I? Please, please, please?

You take the upper half, I'll take the lower half?

 

[blindsage]

I think I see a lot of leaning going on.
In my humble opinion.
Backs look straight, I don't see anyone hunching, but everyone visible in the video looks like they are leaning forward (falling down...).
Supreme Grand Ultimate Pole. The head holding up heaven. Straight up and down. My Sifu would have pushed me/pulled me straight onto the ground if he saw me move like that. ("You move like a thief, if a grappler sees you do that they're going to take it...")

Be careful with assuming that 'leaning' is what you see in Taiji forms. Wu style does this and there is no conflict in the principles when they do it. You probably don't want to give this 'criticism' to a Wu master. Not that it isn't a good criticism in this particular case, among plenty of others.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Be careful with assuming that 'leaning' is what you see in Taiji forms. Wu style does this and there is no conflict in the principles when they do it. You probably don't want to give this 'criticism' to a Wu master. Not that it isn't a good criticism in this particular case, among plenty of others.

Exactly, Wu style has "a lean" but it maintains root and it maintains structure.

Look at Eddie Wu doing one of the Wu forms and you see the lean but the root and structure are always there

And this is what the lean is used for

And he still maintains root and structure

 

[Elbowgrease]

I think the video demonstrating the application perfectly illustrates the difference. The guy in the white shirt vs. Wu. If the lean is a reach, no good. If the lean has a purpose, good. As soon as Wu has his arm, he's down. There is a notable difference in all of these between when the practitioner is and isn't leaning.
I've kind of been kicking myself since I made that post, for a number of reasons, and hoping it wouldn't be taken as simply negative criticism. Maybe I should have rephrased it as a question, is there a reason for the lean I think I see happening, and if so what is the purpose?
Honest question.
That was also the thing that immediately struck me, without looking at any other part of the form.
Sometimes I watch videos of Tai Chi forms and really just can't tell what's going on. Even videos of the Yang long form. Even (some of the very few) videos I can find of people practicing the same version of the Yang long form as me.

 

[fangjian]

Tajiquan must be done slowly 99% of the time during training. It needs to be done this way in order to restructure your body. Since training Internal Power is so difficult and non intuitive, it has to be done slowly. In Taijiquan, you are learning what it is to have a 'connected body'. Most people who claim to do/teach Taijiquan, are really just 'doing the same postures but Externally'. I used to be one of them.

The pace at which to do it and the postures themselves are not arbitrarily chosen. There's a reason it is the way it is. Remember, back in the 50's when 'Contemporary Wushu' was in its infancy, the Standard 24 Form was created. All of the real Taijiquan masters and practitioners criticized the postures as it was a perversion of the Yang postures, and said that basically, 'the changes make it so that you are not really doing The Taijiquan'.

Like Body Building, Internal Training is a ...'process'. There are no short cuts. Even if you, 'memorize the forms, know a zillion applications for each posture and so on', but don't truly have I P, you're not really doing Taijiquan. If you actually are ' Pulling Silk ' and all that, if you practice it quickly, you will get hurt. I've done it. I pulled my Dan Tian a few months ago. Hurt for days .

 

[Buka]

I have to make some time and find a good Tai Chi instructor. I'm starting to Jones out thinking about Tai Chi.

Sometimes when I come home after a good training class - I want to do Tai Chi. I'm not even sure why, I just do.

 

[yak sao]

I have to make some time and find a good Tai Chi instructor. I'm starting to Jones out thinking about Tai Chi.

Sometimes when I come home after a good training class - I want to do Tai Chi. I'm not even sure why, I just do.

You've been at it for many a decade. I think it's a natural progression to move to a more internal approach after so many years.

 

[Buka]

You've been at it for many a decade. I think it's a natural progression to move to a more internal approach after so many years.

That's probably right.
I used to do Tai Chi back in the seventies when I opened my first dojo. A carpenter who was a Tai Chi instructor did all the carpentry work for us if, in exchange, he could use the dojo in the off hours to teach his Tai Chi class. I said sure, as long as I could take the class. I loved it, did it for six months. Then he moved to Maine to woo a gal. There weren't any other Tai Chi instructors around back then, so it just stopped.

Thought about it ever since. Not as a replacement for what I do, but as something I always liked on it's own, and feel it helps what I do.

 

[Xue Sheng]

You've been at it for many a decade. I think it's a natural progression to move to a more internal approach after so many years.

exactly....wait...what...did you just call taijiquan people old

That's probably right.
I used to do Tai Chi back in the seventies when I opened my first dojo. A carpenter who was a Tai Chi instructor did all the carpentry work for us if, in exchange, he could use the dojo in the off hours to teach his Tai Chi class. I said sure, as long as I could take the class. I loved it, did it for six months. Then he moved to Maine to woo a gal. There weren't any other Tai Chi instructors around back then, so it just stopped.

Thought about it ever since. Not as a replacement for what I do, but as something I always liked on it's own, and feel it helps what I do.

Don't know exactly where you are located but there are a few good taiji teachers on the east coast, depending on what you are looking to get out of it would also make a difference as to what sifu to train with and possibly what style

 

[yak sao]

. Then he moved to Maine to woo a gal.

ahhh...woo style

 

[yak sao]

exactly....wait...what...did you just call taijiquan people old

Yea, sort of. But not as an insult.
To me, MA training kind of epitomizes the saying "Youth is wasted on the young".
You spend years and years developing your skills only to have your body start to rebel against what you've been putting it through for all those years.
Out of necessity, the large, dynamic movements become smaller and more subtle. The hard, strength driven techniques become "softer"...in short, the older martial artist's approach becomes more internal.

Many turn to tai chi as they get older to continue on their martial path. I envy the ones at a young age, who were insightful enough to see tai chi, or any of the internal arts for the treasure they are and stick to the training.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Yea, sort of. But not as an insult.
To me, MA training kind of epitomizes the saying "Youth is wasted on the young".
You spend years and years developing your skills only to have your body start to rebel against what you've been putting it through for all those years.
Out of necessity, the large, dynamic movements become smaller and more subtle. The hard, strength driven techniques become "softer"...in short, the older martial artist's approach becomes more internal.

Many turn to tai chi as they get older to continue on their martial path. I envy the ones at a young age, who were insightful enough to see tai chi, or any of the internal arts for the treasure they are and stick to the training.

Insulting my age while telling me I had wisdom beyond my years to start training it young......... I like it....

There are styles of Taijiquan that people should not start when they get older, Zhaobao is a great example of one of those and Chen could be an issue and Southern Wu could be as well if you do not have a real good Southern Wu teacher

 

[Buka]

I just looked up what was near me. There's a Swimming Dragon Tai Chi class offered.
I am not familiar with styles of Tai Chi. What do you guys think?

 

[Xue Sheng]

I just looked up what was near me. There's a Swimming Dragon Tai Chi class offered.
I am not familiar with styles of Tai Chi. What do you guys think?

I don't know Randy Moy but I might know who Fong Ha is, I will have to check when I get home. For Yang style in your area I would recommend Vincent Chu, but he may be expensive. If you want Chen look for Brian Muccio, he is a student of Wang, Hai Jun and has trained with Chen Zhenglei. Wang, Hai Jun is a mainland China student of Chen Zhenglei, There is also Mo Ling (aka Marin Spivack) who is the Senior western disciple of Chen Yu. There is also Stanwood Chang who teaches Sun Style

I will check on Fong Ha when I get home and see if he is who I think he is

 

[Buka]

I don't know Randy Moy but I might know who Fong Ha is, I will have to check when I get home. For Yang style in your area I would recommend Vincent Chu, but he may be expensive. If you want Chen look for Brian Muccio, he is a student of Wang, Hai Jun and has trained with Chen Zhenglei. Wang, Hai Jun is a mainland China student of Chen Zhenglei, There is also Mo Ling (aka Marin Spivack) who is the Senior western disciple of Chen Yu. There is also Stanwood Chang who teaches Sun Style

I will check on Fong Ha when I get home and see if he is who I think he is

Xue Sheng, thank you, my friend. As I said, I know nothing of the different styles of Tai Chi, but I am a believer of certain fates. I am "probably" going to go with Brian Muccio. As I clicked on all the names you posted, it hit me and made me smile. Mr. Muccio is in Roslindale MA (suburb of Boston). It is where my first serious study of Martial Arts took place. It is also where my first serious study of boxing took place. Both for many years. I believe that is fate. At least it is to me.

Why I say "probably" - I'm heading to Hawaii in a few weeks to look at a couple of jobs. If they pan out, I'll be relocating in the summer. (lived there several times already) In which case, Roslindale obviously won't be an option.

If that works out I'll post what's around where I am and seek your advice once again.

Thanks again, brother.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Xue Sheng, thank you, my friend. As I said, I know nothing of the different styles of Tai Chi, but I am a believer of certain fates. I am "probably" going to go with Brian Muccio. As I clicked on all the names you posted, it hit me and made me smile. Mr. Muccio is in Roslindale MA (suburb of Boston). It is where my first serious study of Martial Arts took place. It is also where my first serious study of boxing took place. Both for many years. I believe that is fate. At least it is to me.

Why I say "probably" - I'm heading to Hawaii in a few weeks to look at a couple of jobs. If they pan out, I'll be relocating in the summer. (lived there several times already) In which case, Roslindale obviously won't be an option.

If that works out I'll post what's around where I am and seek your advice once again.

Thanks again, brother.

Tung Family (my lineage of Yang Style) is in Hawaii, there are a couple Chen guys there as well, but I would have to look them up

Brian is a good guy and incredibly knowledgeable as to how the form and the postures work with your musculoskeletal system

 

[Xue Sheng]

Fong Ha is in the book Nei Jia Quan he is a Taijiquan, Yiquan, Qigong guy. As for his taiji it is form my Shigong Tung Ying Chieh, I can check with my sifu to see if he knows him if you like. From what he wrote in the book, I would not mind training with him

 

[mograph]

Fong Ha is in the book Nei Jia Quan he is a Taijiquan, Yiquan, Qigong guy.

Good book.