J
jeffkyle
Guest
Kick his A$$!!!
Get someone else to kick his A$$ if you don't want to do it. IF they don't want to do it, then You kick his A$$!
Kick his A$$!!!
Get someone else to kick his A$$ if you don't want to do it. IF they don't want to do it, then You kick his A$$!
S
Shuri-te
Guest
My first Sensei got infuriated over a student who left the dojo for a while and didn't train, and came back forgetting so much. At the end of class, he went up to the Shodan, asked him to take off his belt, went to his bag, returned with a white belt and told him he had to earn his black belt again before he could wear it.
That left a lasting impression on me.
If I had a student that acted inappropriately in the dojo, I would do the same thing. I'd take his belt away and tell him he can have it back after he starts acting like a responsible student again. And in the meantime, he would where a white belt.
That left a lasting impression on me.
If I had a student that acted inappropriately in the dojo, I would do the same thing. I'd take his belt away and tell him he can have it back after he starts acting like a responsible student again. And in the meantime, he would where a white belt.
I
IsshinryuKarateGirl
Guest
Sadly, I do have a person in my dojo who just received his shodan and is very much like your description. Unfortunately, this person was always like this at every rank. And, at any time anyone even tries to suggest anything to this person, he just screams at them to go do their kata or something or other. I like you am very fed up with these type of people, but I fear that if we are lower rank, we have no power to stop these types of people. At least this pertains to my dojo.
:asian: :ak47: :machgunr:
:asian: :ak47: :machgunr:
S
Shuri-te
Guest
IsshinRyuKarateGirl,
The thing I hate most about the martial arts is that rank gives obnoxious people authorization to be mean-spirited and treat lower ranks any way they see fit.
You are probably right. You have no authority. You are probably not going to get anywhere talking with him. Perhaps you could approach a high dan or the Sensei. But perhaps it would be awkward to bring it up. If you still want to do something, there is always the indirect route.
If I were in your position, I might type up a short statement in simple English saying how frustrated I was becoming. I would say that I go to the dojo to relieve stress, not get more of it. I might also mention that at times this person has made me think about quitting the system and going to another school. Then I would put it in a typed envelope and mail it to my Sensei. I would make sure that it was written in a way that could be attributed to any number of students.
FYI, There is a discussion on honesty and integrity in the General Martial Arts Talk forum that you might want to read. I have complained about the problem of rank and ego there as well. http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=9065&perpage=15&pagenumber=1
On another topic, are you from upstate, perhaps Rochester?? It's off-thread, so you can email me or send a private message if you like.
The thing I hate most about the martial arts is that rank gives obnoxious people authorization to be mean-spirited and treat lower ranks any way they see fit.
You are probably right. You have no authority. You are probably not going to get anywhere talking with him. Perhaps you could approach a high dan or the Sensei. But perhaps it would be awkward to bring it up. If you still want to do something, there is always the indirect route.
If I were in your position, I might type up a short statement in simple English saying how frustrated I was becoming. I would say that I go to the dojo to relieve stress, not get more of it. I might also mention that at times this person has made me think about quitting the system and going to another school. Then I would put it in a typed envelope and mail it to my Sensei. I would make sure that it was written in a way that could be attributed to any number of students.
FYI, There is a discussion on honesty and integrity in the General Martial Arts Talk forum that you might want to read. I have complained about the problem of rank and ego there as well. http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=9065&perpage=15&pagenumber=1
On another topic, are you from upstate, perhaps Rochester?? It's off-thread, so you can email me or send a private message if you like.
OP
OP
angrywhitepajamas
Guest
I had decided not to be bothered bythis shodan's attitude and to let him but heads with the yondan and the nidans. Also scince there are only seven people of kyu rank in the dojo, the dan ranks are expected to spend most of their time teaching what few lower ranks that we have. This rankled our new shodans idea of what a blackbelt should do. So he left about a month ago complaining that our curriculum emphasizes the basics far too much.
He hasn't been back scince.
Don't know if I should be happy or sad or indiferent.
He hasn't been back scince.
Don't know if I should be happy or sad or indiferent.
This statment is true of people in all ranks. I have seen schools that did not have a black belt other than the instructor, Yet the senior student or one of the senior students, would treat the new comers like dirt. He/she would stop doing the drills he should have been doin to correct others all the while his technique stunk. It is/was the head instructors job to correct this poblem but the student would do it when the instructor was busy elsewhere, or he would varry the technique then telll the new person how wrong they where in what they did.
Damn but I dislike these sneaky overblown egos. If if isnt your school though all you can do is point it out tactfuly to the instructor.
S
Shinzu
Guest
true indeed. it's not about being the best. it's about helping others be the best they can be!
where do you think you would be without your instructors????
where do you think you would be without your instructors????
I
IsshinryuKarateGirl
Guest
MJS,
I agree with you. I have seen shodans that have ego inflations, but what frustrates me even more is the fact where I see people at almost every shiai that shouldn't be receiving the rank they are being given. I am just appalled by one shodan who received his rank, but has no self control. I was having a conversation with a few people about this person and they also agreed that he has no control. I hate to be paired up with him to work on conditioning. It's just pure hell. A lot of people that have been in that situation also say that he just plain hurts you too much.
But, there will always be these types of people in every dojo I imagine, so all we can really do (unless we are higher rank than the issue-maker) is sit back and endure the pain they cause.
:fart:
I agree with you. I have seen shodans that have ego inflations, but what frustrates me even more is the fact where I see people at almost every shiai that shouldn't be receiving the rank they are being given. I am just appalled by one shodan who received his rank, but has no self control. I was having a conversation with a few people about this person and they also agreed that he has no control. I hate to be paired up with him to work on conditioning. It's just pure hell. A lot of people that have been in that situation also say that he just plain hurts you too much.
But, there will always be these types of people in every dojo I imagine, so all we can really do (unless we are higher rank than the issue-maker) is sit back and endure the pain they cause.
:fart:
3 suggestions for you
1- Avoid this guy. Dont work out with him.
2- Talk to your inst. about him. Tell him/her that you dont want to workout with this person, and state your reasons.
3- If it continues and nobody seems to be doing anything about it, leave the school
MJS
1- Avoid this guy. Dont work out with him.
2- Talk to your inst. about him. Tell him/her that you dont want to workout with this person, and state your reasons.
3- If it continues and nobody seems to be doing anything about it, leave the school
MJS
I
IsshinryuKarateGirl
Guest
I would really hate giving up training in a great dojo as mine just because of some @$$hole. I have talked to one of my instructors who always is teaching my class nowadays and he's trying to do the best he can with the situation. I do see where my instructor tries to get this person as far away from me and some other people who hate him and I only work with this person only when I necessarily have to.
twendkata71
Black Belt
We call a shodan an advance beginner. This happens a lot. The first time they start wearing that black belt. That usually wears off when reality kicks in and a more advanced black belt takes the ego out of them.
angrywhitepajamas said:
karateka
Yellow Belt
this is quite a problem, many people from my dojo after 6+ years of training get thier shodan and quit because they think they are good enougth. with karate you will never be good enougth because as long as you can improve, you are not good enougth.
to remove this invincibility element, the day after you get your shodan, in my kumite dojo , 5+ senior black belts fight you simultaniously without holding back. i remember my initiation fight quite well and it showed that there is alot of work to be done. I have observed this ego inflation , it affects teenagers more than most, however they arent spared from an initiation fight.
to remove this invincibility element, the day after you get your shodan, in my kumite dojo , 5+ senior black belts fight you simultaniously without holding back. i remember my initiation fight quite well and it showed that there is alot of work to be done. I have observed this ego inflation , it affects teenagers more than most, however they arent spared from an initiation fight.
In every dojo / dojang where I've trained, I've been fortunate to see that most (not all; I'll cover that later) of the Shodan yudansha don't have an ego problem, or at least they don't after training in their first yudansha class.
Sure, it's great that they got to this level, and they should be proud that they accomplished this, but now they have to adjust to going from the big fish in the little pond, to the small fish in a vast ocean. Once they start training with the other, more advanced yudansha, then they realize that they have a long ways to go. It's heartening for them to see this, since they want to work harder, and that the more advanced yudansha will work even harder, too, so they can serve as good examples.
Now, is this the norm everywhere? Of course not. Even at the above mentioned places, there were still some individuals who saw that getting Shodan became the ultimate end of things. Some would simply quit, being satisfied that they became a black belt, others might have developed arrogance, and come into their first yudansha class with an attitude unsuitable for good progress. Those with the bad attitude would usually wisen up pretty quickly, if they wanted to stay, though.
Sure, it's great that they got to this level, and they should be proud that they accomplished this, but now they have to adjust to going from the big fish in the little pond, to the small fish in a vast ocean. Once they start training with the other, more advanced yudansha, then they realize that they have a long ways to go. It's heartening for them to see this, since they want to work harder, and that the more advanced yudansha will work even harder, too, so they can serve as good examples.
Now, is this the norm everywhere? Of course not. Even at the above mentioned places, there were still some individuals who saw that getting Shodan became the ultimate end of things. Some would simply quit, being satisfied that they became a black belt, others might have developed arrogance, and come into their first yudansha class with an attitude unsuitable for good progress. Those with the bad attitude would usually wisen up pretty quickly, if they wanted to stay, though.
karateka
Yellow Belt
Grenadier said:
i agree, and i believe it is the senseis duty to try to get thier students to understand the true meaning of karate and that it begins at shodan, not ends at shodan.
i have seen one too many good martial artists quit because of a lack of attitude. i wish i had the physique of some of these people and yet they leave all they could achieve aside.
angrywhitepajamas said:
Sorry if this has been said already, I didn't take the time to read the entire thread.
If you are of lower rank it is never your place to correct those above you. If you are not a black belt you should not generally correct any student, as you have not yet mastered the basics. Also, commonly if you are not the black belts teacher, or one of those that helped in training this person common respect for other blackbelts would be to not point out the flaw in front of others of lower rank, but among other blackbelts. However, it is the job of the senior blackbelts to remind the baby blackbelt that he has just finished the tutorial, and is now ready to play the real game. Achieving a blackbelt is nothing more than saying I have mastered the basics, and am now ready to learn.
It is easy to forget, and even easier to forget the more advanced you become, but we all must be respectful of those that are higher ranking than us. Right or wrong they did achieve a level that you have not yet acquired. It is hard, especially when you know they are wrong, but it is a very disrespectful thing to correct those that are higher ranking. Also, it is disrespectful to correct fellow blackbelts, even of other styles, in front of students.
WyldFya said:
Blackbelts aren't gods, they are human and quite falliable. If someone is teaching something truly wrong then it is your obligation to point it out. Otherwise you are placing the ego of the instructor over the welfare and education of the student, and that is just WRONG.
Lamont
It traditional karate it is disrespectful to correct those that have a higher rank than you. Regardless of whether or not they are correct is not important. You have not attained the rank they have, therefore you theoretically should not know as much as them. If they are doing things wrong the person that promotes them will not allow them to go farther without fixing the problem. If you notice it and they don't that is there problem, and you will eventually surpass them. To show another martial artist disrespect is dishonorable, and wrong. Bring it up to a higher ranking member, but do not approach it yourself. Even if you say they are doing it wrong, not many will listen to someone of lower rank. Is this ideal? no. Is this perfect? no. Just remember to respect those that have come before you, those that will come after you, and those that helped you to get where you are today.Blindside said:
WyldFya said:
I agree strongly on this matter.
It's one thing if you have a discussion after the class is over, and in private, and talk about such things. If anything, a wise teacher who has made a mistake, will be more than willing to listen to such things, in a polite conversation.
However, openly questioning someone in front of the other students certainly shows disrespect. Even if the intentions were good, there's a right time and place for them, and the classroom floor is certainly not that.
