Shaolin Kempo Karate

[Iron Leopard]

I have extensive history with both USSD and FV and a few other studios and styles, mainly with USSD and FV split down the middle.

I'll limit this argument to only the business benefits to running a USSD studio.

You get support from thier marketing, (something leopard I think) It's good and ready made and support from the other studios in your area. Basically if you run your own studio and aren't affiliated with anyone and some one tries to bully you...you are on your own or your friends may or may not help you..with USSD or FV the other studios will show up at your door with help. That's nice.

A lot of money does go to USSD and out of pocket of the instructor or investor but...come on...go to their HQ and count the hummers, corvettes, mercedes, BMWs, and lexus etc. it's crazy.

I hung out in a circle of FV guys who were the same way.....if you have support and training like that..you can't help but make money and the money you pay out is like an investment that you get back ten fold. It's worth every penny, those that fail were not giving a 100% or were bad with people.

Period. it is a great thing..business wise. I happen to also beleive that it is a great thing martial arts wise too but...that's only my opinion and I've been wrong before.

 

[Hand Sword]

It is a double edged sword. On one hand, you're right. Tons of people are getting involved in the Martial arts, which is a good thing. On the other side, the Art has suffered badly, with the watering down of training, and less calibur practitoners.

 

[MeatWad2]

I have extensive history with both USSD and FV and a few other studios and styles, mainly with USSD and FV split down the middle.

I'll limit this argument to only the business benefits to running a USSD studio.

You get support from thier marketing, (something leopard I think) It's good and ready made and support from the other studios in your area. Basically if you run your own studio and aren't affiliated with anyone and some one tries to bully you...you are on your own or your friends may or may not help you..with USSD or FV the other studios will show up at your door with help. That's nice.

A lot of money does go to USSD and out of pocket of the instructor or investor but...come on...go to their HQ and count the hummers, corvettes, mercedes, BMWs, and lexus etc. it's crazy.

I hung out in a circle of FV guys who were the same way.....if you have support and training like that..you can't help but make money and the money you pay out is like an investment that you get back ten fold. It's worth every penny, those that fail were not giving a 100% or were bad with people.

Period. it is a great thing..business wise. I happen to also beleive that it is a great thing martial arts wise too but...that's only my opinion and I've been wrong before.

You talk about ussd being there if someone bullys you, I've read on other MA forums ussd does that to people who leave them?
You have been with them a long time is this true?

Do they really take half the money from the dojo?

 

[Hand Sword]

Different people have different experiences. I think the whole USSD thing has been beaten to death. They are who they are, and do what they do. Don't like it? Don't join their organization. There's plenty of other dojos to train at. Let's please stay on topic of the thread.

 

[CTKempo Todd]

Why did you leave Villaris?

Sorry SN...
Missed your question..

Here is the cliff's notes version of my history within Villari's and beyond..

http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showpost.php?p=476586&postcount=357

 

[Iron Leopard]

well bottom line is...most people who leave USSD or FV...if they were good instructors could come back from my experience.....only those that left under bad circumstances.. or tried to open up a competitive studio close to another USSD or FV would cry bully.

USSD instructors make alot of money. I never considered it that USSD took half the money...they don't. You can make alot of money in this business and at FV too.

I've seen Masters from other studios and styles and was not impressed ..have seen FV and USSD masters and they were awesome. I probably do need to get out more but...they are good.

I agree that chain or franchise studio is a double edge sword..you want to benifit as many people as you can and teach as many students as possible but with that you can't be the brutal hardcore instructor and only produce A+ black belts. You must try to benefit everyone. Isn't that why we teach?

 

[dianhsuhe]

"well bottom line is...most people who leave USSD or FV...if they were good instructors could come back from my experience.....only those that left under bad circumstances.. or tried to open up a competitive studio close to another USSD or FV would cry bully."

Wow...Pretty arrogant statement. How exactly do YOU determine which instructors are "good" and which are not? My instructor left USSD MANY years ago and never looked back. According to your theory he must not be a "good" instructor?

Also, I do not believe the goal is to teach as many people as possible and sacrifice the quality of the training. Quite the opposite actually. If the training is difficult and challenging, less people are going to stick it out and those that do will be of higher skill and understanding.

Just my opinion of course-

 

[MeatWad2]

"well bottom line is...most people who leave USSD or FV...if they were good instructors could come back from my experience.....only those that left under bad circumstances.. or tried to open up a competitive studio close to another USSD or FV would cry bully."

Wow...Pretty arrogant statement. How exactly do YOU determine which instructors are "good" and which are not? My instructor left USSD MANY years ago and never looked back. According to your theory he must not be a "good" instructor?

Also, I do not believe the goal is to teach as many people as possible and sacrifice the quality of the training. Quite the opposite actually. If the training is difficult and challenging, less people are going to stick it out and those that do will be of higher skill and understanding.

Just my opinion of course-

Very good opinion Disnhshue.

Iron Leopard your saying people who get bulied for leaving ussd is because they open their own school down the street from them and ussd has the right to do them what ever they want because they came from them?

Did you ever ask them if they were treated right ?
Maybe instead of bullying people maybe look why people leave and fix the problem instead of making more.

 

[Hand Sword]

I train in shaolin kempo karate under grandmaster fred villari. I am dedicated to the system and the longer i train the more i am amazed by it. Many people though talk badly of villari and his system. I dont understand this. Is it cause they saw a villari student who was a little more then less then perfect? I would like to know what others think about villari and his system.

Well....here's the original question of the thread, which seems to have been forgotten. In yet another attempt to bring us back on topic, my answers to this are:The bad talk about Mr. Villari, is in the connection to what others have called McDojoism. This includes business practices, and watered down students, with the creation of one dojo after another. The funny thing about this....All of the current arguers are just carrying on anger that they were not around in the beginning to witness for themselves. All of the original anger goes back many years now, with some people, who are no longer here. What's also funny, many of the other "legit" systems and masters have done the exact same thing as Mr. Villari. Also, many of their students are less than perfect too. As for the system, it's just as good as any other system, being well rounded and practical.

 

[Iron Leopard]

I agree with sword hand. good points. If you've studied either FV or USSD or another brand of shaolin kempo then you know it's benefits. we all have our opinions on the quality of the instruction and training. I also didn't mean to imply that either ussd or FV has a right to bully anyone who leaves the system. In reality I haven't seen much of that by either system I know it has happened though. I believe if someone decides to leave then let him be. How do I define "good" instructor? I'm sorry if I came across arogant. by good I just mean, a good instructor who enjoys teaching and is making money. With either FV or USSD if you work hard and enjoy what you are doing you will make money. and lastly....man I'm long winded today! ....having experience in both systems...I don't know why anyone would talk badly about either unless they had a bad personal experience.

whew!

 

[Hand Sword]

errr...Hand Sword, thanks.

 

[Danjo]

well bottom line is...most people who leave USSD or FV...if they were good instructors could come back from my experience.....only those that left under bad circumstances.. or tried to open up a competitive studio close to another USSD or FV would cry bully.

USSD instructors make alot of money. I never considered it that USSD took half the money...they don't. You can make alot of money in this business and at FV too.

I've seen Masters from other studios and styles and was not impressed ..have seen FV and USSD masters and they were awesome. I probably do need to get out more but...they are good.

I agree that chain or franchise studio is a double edge sword..you want to benifit as many people as you can and teach as many students as possible but with that you can't be the brutal hardcore instructor and only produce A+ black belts. You must try to benefit everyone. Isn't that why we teach?

Well the stories are numerous about the bullying tactics, but whatever. As to the quality of the Masters...everything's relative I guess. Depends on what you're used to.

 

[dianhsuhe]

Sorry Iron Leopard but I fear you missed my point entirely.

"by good I just mean, a good instructor who enjoys teaching and is making money."

This is silly. If the instructor enjoys what he is doing and he makes money he is a good instructor? Is that really your contention?

I respectfully disagree, being a good instructor and making money are totally unrelated. Some of the finest teachers and schools go out of business because the training is too difficult, or rank advancement is too slow for the general public.

Professor William Kwai Sun Chow was always at or below the poverty level, does that mean he was not a good teacher?

 

[MeatWad2]

One of my best instructors taught me and one of my friends in the park for 50 bucks a month and could beat the crap out of most McDojo instructors anyday.
He didn't have a dojo but was a great insrtuctor does that make a loser? NO!

 

[Iron Leopard]

Sorry everyone I guess I mispoke ..I didn't mean to say that just having fun and making money means you are a good instructor. I appologize.

I do believe that if you are a good instructor and that you enjoy teaching that you should be paid and paid well for it. You can't put a price on personal safety and the thousand other benefits of the martial arts.

I know that you need quality instruction too. I realize that chow was never wealthy and that he was a great instructor. and even worse than that....I got Hand Swords name wrong! I'm so sorry!

 

[KempoGuy06]

Im new to this whole lineage thing so no bashing. SKK comes from Villari, correct? What is USSD? Is it connected to SKK and Villari? Ive tried to read up but have some how confussed myself (happens a lot ) I have picked up that there is a lot of hostility towards some people about that way things were run. Im trying to understand.

B

PS - I cant get the seach function to work thats why im asking.

 

[MJS]

Im new to this whole lineage thing so no bashing. SKK comes from Villari, correct? What is USSD? Is it connected to SKK and Villari? Ive tried to read up but have some how confussed myself (happens a lot ) I have picked up that there is a lot of hostility towards some people about that way things were run. Im trying to understand.

B

PS - I cant get the seach function to work thats why im asking.

I've since moved on from that system, and I'm sure that others here can offer more detailed input, but it seems to me that USSD (United Studios of Self Defense) is the organization that Demasco and Materra formed after their break from Villari. As for the material taught, I'm not sure how similar/different it is.

Mike

 

[14 Kempo]

Im new to this whole lineage thing so no bashing. SKK comes from Villari, correct? What is USSD? Is it connected to SKK and Villari? Ive tried to read up but have some how confussed myself (happens a lot ) I have picked up that there is a lot of hostility towards some people about that way things were run. Im trying to understand.

B

PS - I cant get the seach function to work thats why im asking.

Let's not get into all that, when your search engine begins to function, you'll be able to read for yourself. For now, let's just say that the current USSD is a split off of FVSSD and yes, the systems are very, very similar as far as material required for rank, at least up to the level of Nidan.

 

[Danjo]

Fred Villari founded Shaolin Kempo Karate and taught it in an organization named "United Studios of Self Defense". He changed the name to various things over the years and it's now called Villari's Self Defense Centers. Mattera was one of Villari's students up to 7th degree black belt. He broke away in 1988 to form his own organizatin and ressurected the name USSD. In 1993, 7th degree Steve Demasco broke away from Villari and joined up with Mattera in a loose-knit partnership.

The SKK that both teach is virtually identical. The changes between them are the same as you would see going from school to school within either organization.

 

[Iron Leopard]

I agree with the previous couple of posts both styles are virtually identical with a different strike here or a hand position different there.