Setup AR-15 for Home Defense

[Drobison491]

Let me know when you have a home defense/self defense engagement at 100 yards.

I thought everyone had hallways in their homes that were 100 yrds or more....hmmm may need to reevaluate my life.

Seriously though, your right most people won't be in a situation where they need to engage at 100 yrds or most likely even 50 yrds. As I said the article was talking about personal defense, not specifically home defense, and was using the distances to show the similar ft-lbs between the weapon systems.

 

[lklawson]

I thought everyone had hallways in their homes that were 100 yrds or more....hmmm may need to reevaluate my life.

Seriously though, your right most people won't be in a situation where they need to engage at 100 yrds or most likely even 50 yrds. As I said the article was talking about personal defense, not specifically home defense, and was using the distances to show the similar ft-lbs between the weapon systems.

Fair enough. Still, I'm having a hard time imagining a 100 yard "Personal Defense" event which passes legal muster.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

 

[Drobison491]

Agreed. Hell, after seeing the way some of the "trained" shooters I work with shoot, I wouldn't really want them engaging at anything more than 15m.

 

[CB Jones]

But so does the .223, and you pay a lower price in terms of recoil, follow-ups, ammo capacity, etc.

Recently, the entire world saw a single .223 take the bicep off of an attacker with a handgun. I read that surgeons managed to save the arm but I have my doubts how useful it will be going forward.

And that's from a "Poodle Shooter." Imagine what a real rifle round, like a 30-06, would have done.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

I'm not saying the AR isn't effective....just that the shotgun does much more than punch holes. It has great stopping power like rifles.

 

[CB Jones]

Fair enough. Still, I'm having a hard time imagining a 100 yard "Personal Defense" event which passes legal muster.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

Someone shooting at you from 100 yards away?

 

[lklawson]

Someone shooting at you from 100 yards away?

Sure, that'd be the start of one possibility. Now add in the inability to seek cover or viable retreat and when you know the approximate location of the shooter? In the past 10 years, I can think of only one off the top of my head.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

 

[Drobison491]

worth noting that you do not always have the obligation to retreat.

 

[lklawson]

worth noting that you do not always have the obligation to retreat.

Naturally. Nevertheless, I would argue that if retreat is a safe and viable option, then it is the preferable option, for several reasons.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

 

[Drobison491]

Not denying that at all, especially at that distance and taking into account what weapon I had, who I was with.

 

[skribs]

Someone shooting at you from 100 yards away?

There was one I heard of a while ago where a cop was in a gunfight, and a citizen saw it from over 100 yards away and shot the bad guy, saving the cop.

Self defense of others seems more appropriate.

 

[lklawson]

There was one I heard of a while ago where a cop was in a gunfight, and a citizen saw it from over 100 yards away and shot the bad guy, saving the cop.

Self defense of others seems more appropriate.

You talking about the Texas trailer park shooting of a few years back? That was about 150 feet (50 yards).

Citizen shoots trailer park gunman, saves Texas officer

Still, most people can't accurate shoot a handgun at 50 yards.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

 

[CB Jones]

Sure, that'd be the start of one possibility. Now add in the inability to seek cover or viable retreat and when you know the approximate location of the shooter? In the past 10 years, I can think of only one off the top of my head.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

I was just helping you imagine an event....lol.

Thankfully, I live in a state that does not require retreat and even mentioning the lack of retreat by the state in a self defense claim is grounds for a mistrial.

 

[drop bear]

He didn't mention a laser. So, no.

But to answer your question: no, a laser doesn't give away your location during a self defense/home defense encounter. The bad guys can see you anyway, really. You're only 15-30 feet away. And you've got a gun. They're looking for you anyhow.

And even then, a laser usually doesn't draw a line to you. At most there's a single red dot that someone at the other end might be able to see (but usually can't, because it's a coherent beam). Take a laser pointer toy out into your darkened house some time and have your SO or friend see if the origin is readily apparent and if they'd notice it if someone were shooting at them.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

 

[lklawson]

View attachment 23147

Personal pic?

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

 

[drop bear]

Personal pic?

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

Yep that is my lazer. I really only use it for flavor as it gives me away.

 

[lklawson]

Yep that is my lazer. I really only use it for flavor as it gives me away.

Fair enough.

It seems to be spreading different from the lasers I've tested. <shrug>

I still maintain that the person at the other end is already going to know where you're at (you're not ambushing them "in self defense" are you?) and that you should be shooting anyway at that point.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

 

[CB Jones]

Yep that is my lazer. I really only use it for flavor as it gives me away.

Time to switch to a IR illuminator and laser sight

 

[drop bear]

Fair enough.

It seems to be spreading different from the lasers I've tested. <shrug>

I still maintain that the person at the other end is already going to know where you're at (you're not ambushing them "in self defense" are you?) and that you should be shooting anyway at that point.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

I would say in my house I am absolutely ambushing them.

 

[Oni_Kadaki]

Definitely an AR-15, in my opinion, for a long list of reasons.

• This idea of the pistol being easier because it's smaller is ludicrous. The long gun is superior because of the extra contact points. This gives better stability, which leads to more accuracy and less likelihood of stray shots. The shotgun isn't much different from the AR in this case. At expected home defense range, you will likely get a group of maybe 1-2 inches from the shotgun. Most misses with a rifle with miss with a shotgun as well. In fact, if a shotgun did have a spray like in the video games, then it probably would be more dangerous to your neighbors.
• Rifles use high velocity to inflict damage. Pistols and shotguns essentially just poke holes in the target. Shotguns just poke many more holes for one pull of the trigger. Rifles tend to rip through the target. This makes it more likely to put the bad guy down faster.
• Compared with a high-powered rifle (the AR-15 is actually a very weak rifle), the AR-15 has lighter recoil. This makes follow-up shots more accurate. If the first shot doesn't put the bad guy down, or if there are multiple bad guys, this is important. It also can carry more ammunition, which makes it ideal for follow-ups as well. You never know how many rounds you'll need to stop a threat; having more is usually better.
• Overpenetration through walls is always brought up. The interesting thing about rifles is that, because they rely on velocity to do most of their damage, they tend to cause less damage when overpenetrating through walls than something like a shotgun or a handgun. That is, assuming the load you're using is capable of self-defense. Birdshot won't go through a wall, but it also might not even get through an attacker's clothes. Buckshot or handgun rounds will barely notice the wall. A light rifle round, like the .223, will slow down upon hitting the wall, and lose a lot of that dangerous momentum. It's still dangerous for overpentration, but not as much as people would have you believe.

I think OP was referring to an AR-pistol, rather than a straight-up pistol, though there are circumstances where the latter are superior, to be sure.

I'm currently setting up a 16-inch AR chambered in 5.56 with a handstop, backup irons, a low-powered variable optic, aftermarket trigger, and a sling. Though it would certainly serve the role for home defense effectively, my intention with this setup is a general-purpose rifle that can defend my home as well as it can harvest food.

For a dedicated home defense "rifle," I think an AR pistol chambered in .300 blackout with a good red dot and a pistol brace would be hard to beat... It would be more maneuverable in tight quarters, boast superior stopping power when using supersonic loads, and lend itself very well to suppression when using subsonic loads. On that note, the big issue with using a rifle for home defense, that I see, is the noise... I've had a .45 ACP go off about five feet away from me, and, while it sucked, there was no lasting damage. I doubt the same would be true of .223.

 

[drop bear]

Fair enough. Still, I'm having a hard time imagining a 100 yard "Personal Defense" event which passes legal muster.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

If you owned a farm or something. Their driveways are plus 100 yards.

I assume these guns are accurate inside that range as well.

So the shotgun would then have to do something the machine gun doesn't. Because you probably don't want to be changing guns half way through.